New York Mets Report Is Back!

Hi Mets fans,

Let me first apologize for the site being down for the last 24 hours. I was in the process of changing servers and hosts so that I can continue to provide you with a smoother experience moving forward.

We have already implemented some changes to the site, including returning to a traditional blog format which most readers seemed to prefer.

I have a few more changes in store in the coming weeks, but none that will interfere with your access to the site, and our future changes geared toward enhancing your experience and taking advantage of the latest in new media and social networking.

Thank you for your support.

30 thoughts on “New York Mets Report Is Back!

  1. Glad to see the site is back – The test page was interesting – for a second. I was afraid you might have gone to S Africa to report on the World Cup.

  2. Good to see the site back up. This is a good time to be a Mets fan. Havent been able to say that in awhile. for all the talk of AL superiority, metsies are 6-1 against them. It will be interesting to see Niese pitching in front of his hometown folks. Hope it doesnt mess with his concentration. Lets go Mets!!

  3. Glad you are back. yay!
    I want to be the first to post Rob feller’s comment to SNY last night.

    Chris asked him how he liked how todays; games are handled.

    A 91 year old ex-pitcher, hall of famer, had this to say:

    “I hate the Pitch Count”
    “They should go back to the 4 man rotation”
    “its all about training” “I dont know how they are training them but they are missing something”
    “in my day the pitcher finished the game”

    =======================================
    Last nights game was good and I was glad they hit so well for santana even though KRod almost blew it. Those extra hits kept us in.. all around they all played well.

    Lets keep it up!

  4. (3) And Bob Feller was toast by the age of 32. And, like so many others, he has no idea how much pitch counts would have helped him.

    This is why I’ve compared this with smoking before the 1964 Surgeon General’s Report. Prior to 1964, when a smoker came down lung cancer, he thought it was simply bad luck, that he had done what everyone else was doing and, for some reason, bad luck had fallen him. It’s the same thing for pitchers who threw before the pitch-count studies: They think their arm injuries were simply bad luck.

    I’d much rather hear what the post-studies pitchers have to say about pitch counts. Ask Al Leiter about Dallas Green. You’ll hear a very different (dare I say more educated?) opinion on pitch counts.

  5. 4. thats 2 pitchers out of every other major league pitcher. Perhaps these 2 are just whining and looking for an excuse as to why they didnt last as long as nolan ryan.
    oh and by the way the reason why Bob Feller lasted until he was 32. it was called WWII.

  6. (5) You’re right, Steve: It’s two pitchers and me. That’s all. We’re just dumb shits who don’t know anything. You and your ilk around here know more, right?

    And, please, check Feller’s record before you post your nonsense: He came back from WWII at age 27. In his first year back, he threw 371 innings, 36 complete games, faced 1,512 batters, struck out 348 and walked 153. They didn’t keep record of pitch counts in 1946, but you can bet that a guy who struck out and walked as many hitters as Feller did was probably averaging 5 to 6 pitches per batter faced; in which case, he likely threw between 180 and 240 pitches in his 36 complete games. In other words, you’re making my case for me.

    Let me ask you this: When do you betray your inherent ignorance and actually review this concept before mindlessly posting more dreck about it?

  7. first of all I didn’t call anyone mindless. All I said was that all i hear from the old and many of the new pitchers is how bad the pitch count is for them and their game.

    Many of us have given you pitcher after pitcher who never once complained that their pitching career ended early or they suffered ill effects from pitching complete games.

    Secondly what I posted wasn’t mindless , I posted a factual statement made by a renowned pitcher. All I am asking is to see this data because all the data I ever find is on little league and pitch counts.
    Also the pitchers that like the pitch counts I have yet to hear anyone air this fact. I was never profane to you so please keep the tone down.
    If you want to continue discussing this.. there was no reason to turn this post to a base crude discussion.
    However, if you feel so negatively towards the facts given by Mr. Feller we can just drop the discussion..

  8. I think it is all how the pitchers are trained. if you are used to throwing 150 pitches a game, then your arm will be able to handle it. If you are used to throwing 100, your arm won’t. There are plenty of pitchers from the 40′s thru the 70′s who went on to long and lustrious careers that threw 150 pitches a night.

  9. 8. exactly my point and exactly what Feller had stated. he said he didnt know how they were being trained but they dont have the muscles built up. if they just went back to the 4 man rotation and trained then properly they could do it. That has been my stance as well as your and others this whole time.

  10. (7) “Facts given by Mr. Feller”? This is exactly why you are mindless. These are opinions, not facts — and they’re coming from someone who, apparently, doesn’t realize that his own career was short-circuited because of overuse. In other words, this is the pre-1964 smoker who believes his cancer reflects bad luck.

    If you really want to look at this issue, we could have interesting discussions. But that would involve knowing more than a list of outliers who’ve been able to survive while throwing 150 pitches per game. Indeed, for every one of these you list, the baseball highway is littered with others who blew out their arms due to overuse. For every Ryan, there’s a Gentry; for every Seaver, there’s a Gooden. We could have that conversation — but it would require you actually looking at the information (which, by the way, is readily available to anyone with an Internet connection).

    If, on the other hand, you don’t want to consider the information out there, feel free to abandon this discussion until the next time you post about — and then abandon it.

  11. what i found interesting is that when I look up pitch count and major leagues. I find articles like this.. and then the only other data I find is that of little league.
    oh and the fact that I post an article and dont tell someone to go find this obscure file that I have yet to find.
    The article I posted has data lots of it and he gives both sides. and the one thing he shows is that arm injuries didnt occur during high pitch counts.

    As for Feller, its a fact because he pitched and pitched with others and knows how they lasted and played. to me thats fact he lived it and played it and watched it progress.

    So your opinion is that he didnt know his career was cut short? Funny, he didnt seem to complain.
    Tiffany, I try to discuss something with you and try to see both sides and I have tried to look for this data of yours. it appears i guess its in book form which I really dont care to buy nor read.
    I really dont care that you disagree with me, what i care about is your attitude. if no one agrees with you we are mindless and have no clue about health,statistics or data.
    As i said earlier , if you cannot discuss this without getting overly personal and colloquial then this will be my last reply to you on this topic in this thread.
    Have a nice day and the game is almost on.
    lets Go Mets!

  12. (13) And you wonder why Tata is cutting in on your territory? You seem incapable of learning and/or deciphering anything outside of your comfort zone.

    And, yes, this will be the last reply — until, of course, you mindlessly resurrect the topic in your incoherent way sometime in the future. Which we know you will do, because, as noted above, you are incapable of learning anything new.

    See you then, Steve.

  13. 19. dave – my issue with the PAP score and what happens today in in the latest link. “Pitchers in the 1950s came out of the game when their performance dictated it; pitchers today come out of the game when their workload dictates it.”
    This is a lie, each person will have a different workload. They are taken out by the magic number 100-105 on a rare occasion are they allowed to throw more. unless the manager says screw the pitch count which is starting to happen on some teams. Not ours.
    Body Type,pitch type,mechanics,and training will explain a pitchers performance and workload. Not a magic number. Even the announcers know when the pitchers come out. well here we go he’s getting close to the 100 mark out he will go.
    yet in the same breath you hear how the bullpen is being abused. in other words what is happening in today’s game:
    throw the baby out with the bath water..
    But as so many have said and we can see. this will not go away anytime soon. However, that doesnt mean we have to like it, just like discussions on who should be traded.. thats the point of having open discussions..
    All in all , if people didnt push their potential we would be in dire straights..seems like today’s concept is to be lazy and do the minimum or whats required not what is necessary to get it done right. *sigh*

  14. But I still have a right to my thinking as do you.
    and though these PAP articles are interesting, with the mathematical assumptions etc. It helps to have a baseline of pitches etc. But to gage every man when we are all uniquely individual and not a manufactured like a catchers mit.
    The articles I presented debated the PAP and justly so. and they too were well written and thought out. The math is there but to make the leap that 100 pitches is the maximum any man can throw without issues is a big leap. But so be it. until it changes we will see more bull pens crushed. As i said earlier I think 150-160 pitches every 5 days is less detrimental than 40+ a day by the same guy. But who knows for sure. You can only go by how the pitcher reacts day to day.

  15. (23) Yes, you have a right to your thinking — but don’t think that right is sacred when there’s very little supporting your position.

    If you read the articles, they certainly debate the PAP stat, but are less ambivalent about pitch counts in and of themselves.

    As for the unique make-up of each individual pitcher, yes, we should think of that when noting outliers from other eras who threw a lot of pitches. If you’re going to talk Nolan Ryan, you have to talk Gary Gentry, as well. If you follow that logic, it will inevitably lead to the question: Do you want to take the chance to find out if your pitcher here in 2010 is more like Ryan or more like Gentry? It’s akin to pointing to that uncle who smoked for 40 years and didn’t get cancer, and using that as your model for starting smoking today.

    Two other things:
    1. The math doesn’t make a “leap” that 100 pitches is the maximum; the data suggests wear-and-tear, as well as effectiveness, issues taking place frequently at that juncture. To be sure, if you look at young pitchers who have suffered arm injuries (e.g., Prior, Isringhausen, Pulsipher), you will see an abnormal number of starts where they went beyond 100 pitches. In other words, it’s not a number pulled from an orifice.

    2. I have yet to see any data regarding your repeated theory that 40 pitches per day is more detrimental than 150 every five days. Do you have any studies you could cite? On the other hand, we _do_ have studies which have demonstrated what happens with high pitch counts every five days; indeed, these studies indicate that the pitches thrown beyond certain thresholds (say, over 40 in one inning, or 115 in an entire game) can cause incremental damage. I’d love to see the studies supporting your position.

  16. I thought the article I found covered the issue you present very well.

    as for studies of 40 everyday, then since it isnt detrimental lets get rid of the “starter” and just have long relievers and have everyone pitch every day. which is silly , of course.

    I have yet to see the low pitch counts being done today preventing injuries.

    Also you say we so emphatically, were you one of the writers of PAP? Which would be cool, and you shouldnt hide that fact.

    Honestly I have yet to see these counts be of help to any pitcher. Maybe I am blind along with several thousands of fans and ex players.

    As for the outliers etc. The rebuttal PAP part Deux goes into that. Like I said, I researched and I read your articles and subsequent articles.. and I just dont see it, especially not with the Mets.

    But I will say I much prefer having a conversation with you in this tone then the previous, though you did get a wee bit snarky so i got a little above. fair is fair.

    As I indicated earlier we will just have to see how this whole pitching lifestyle pans out.

  17. (26) This is where you lose me, Steve: When you start quoting civilians from “Yahoo Answers” and/or blogs from slow-pitch softball players.

    If you want a real discussion, you can’t be using sources like this.

  18. (25) The concept of having everyone pitch a little every day isn’t really all that silly from a health perspective. From an effectiveness standpoint, though, you would run the risk of having to have nine pitchers on their game on any given day.

    As for you not seeing whether pitch counts can prevent arm injuries, can you give me a list of pitchers working under Rick Peterson who have suffered arm injuries and have needed surgery? Indeed, look at the Braves; I believe one of the articles I posted talked about how Mazzone had done such a good job protecting his arms. Also, I believe one of the articles discussed how rare it was for some of the old-time pitchers to make it past their early 30s, a threshold which seems commonplace today.

    I’m happy to have a conversation that focuses on the topic and veers away from if-I-don’t-understand-it-it-must-not-be-so. I hate Led Zeppelin — but I have spent the time listening to them enough so that I can explain _exactly why_ I hate them. There’s a difference between saying you don’t like something and being able to actually pinpoint _why_.

  19. 27. my point Tiffany is that whenever you read about pitch count. almost all the hist that come up first are softball and little league .. where it makes the most sense.
    as for civilians. I dont think the guy that answered was a civilian. he quoted a halway decent book.

  20. (29) Actually, the stuff that comes up on my searches is from Baseball Prospectus and other hard-core, baseball-oriented sites, written by people who have spent years thinking and writing about the topic.

    I mean, how fascinating was that pitch-count data from those Dodger teams of yesteryear? They actually averaged fewer pitches per start than today, because their managers tended to have short hooks for struggling pitchers. Yet, in the wrong hands, the analysis is that pitchers today have higher pitch counts than in the past, omitting the idea these old-time managers swung the other way in terms of leaving a pitcher in too long when he was pitching well. That’s why the sourcing of the information is so important — that it gives us the appropriate context to see why today’s pitchers actually have higher pitch counts without being subjected to as much wear-and-tear risks.

    Finally, “where it makes the most sense”? Are you saying it wouldn’t have made sense to limit Feller’s pitch counts after WWII? Hershiser’s in the late 80s and early 90s? Koufax in the early-to-mid 60s? Arguably, all of these guys suffered arm injuries attributable to their workloads, despite being over 25.