May 5.10: Chat Room, Game #28 at Reds: Getaway day and resting Pelfrey.

The Mets behind Jon Niese will attempt to win the rubber game of their series at Cincinnati this afternoon and go home 3-3 on the road trip. A let down of sorts after their 9-1 homestand, but considering what happened in Philly, I’ll take it.

Niese is coming off a superb start last Friday in Philadelphia, prompting one anonymous Phillie to say he’s better than any pitcher the Phillies have “not named Halladay.”

To me, the key story of the day is how the Mets are handling Mike Pelfrey’s tight shoulder. Pelfrey was hammered in his last start, and afterward complained of stiffness in his shoulder. An MRI Monday was negative, but even so the Mets bagged his normal throw day yesterday and today he had a light abbreviated bullpen session.

Pitching coach Dan Warthen said the decision to cancel his normal bullpen was to not force the issue, but also said Pelfrey is good to go this weekend against San Francisco.

I say, why bother?

There’s reason enough to be concerned so shouldn’t the prudent thing be to have him skip his start to be sure he’s sound. We’re talking a game in May. Isn’t it better to miss one game now rather than four or five later should he go on the disabled list for a prolonged time?

When it comes to a pitcher’s arm, I always anticipate the worse and believe it is better to be cautious now rather than regretful later. They don’t need Pelfrey as much this weekend as they do later this season.

R.A. Dickey is pitching well for Triple-A Buffalo and could be brought up for an emergency start.

Here’s today’s line-up for the Mets:

Angel Pagan, CF
Alex Cora, 2B
Jose Reyes, SS
Jason Bay, LF
David Wright, 3B
Ike Davis, 1B
Gary Matthews, RF
Henry Blanco, C
Jon Niese, LP

118 thoughts on “May 5.10: Chat Room, Game #28 at Reds: Getaway day and resting Pelfrey.

  1. um why matthews over Francoeur?
    *sigh*
    i honestly dont think M&M want to win 2 in a row.

  2. FIRST INNING: Reyes is hitting only .250 batting third and .237 overall. Take from that what you will. … Nice start by the offense with three straight strikeouts.-JD

  3. hey dave. the mets are on .. :-)
    one of the benefits of finally working from home after working in Canada for 2 weeks.

  4. i didnt realize maine apologized to francouer on the field. very classy.

  5. SteveC (12): You don’t see that very often. There’s a different attitude surrounding this team and accountability is one of them. … I have a feeling Maine waited because he wanted to be asked about it. It is something a player probably wouldn’t volunteer, but when asked about it would tell the truth. And, Francoeur certainly wouldn’t volunteer it, either. You’re right. Very classy.-JD

  6. does manuel still think reyes is a #3 hitter?
    He’s in the 3 spot because he is still injured/sick whatever./.

  7. this has to be the first season. both catchers get the runners out. NICE!

  8. still plenty of game. just need to manufacture the runs.
    *grr* But this is the mets.. at least they are fighting and not just lying down dead.
    :-)

  9. Wright has seven homers; ten all last year. I was thinking 27 before the season. I’m wondering if I sold him short.-JD

  10. wright got his swing back. i think keith seeing francoeur catch the issue had an impact. maybe fracoeur talked to him. his swings are much different now and more confident.

  11. SteveC (38): I think the key for Wright was him being able to handle the inside pitch. Because he did that pitchers are working him outside and he’s able to go to right which is a strength. Right now there’s no way to effectively pitch him.-JD

  12. 40. agreed. but watching the game where keith saw the hitch and further discussions .. the reason the inside pitch used to fool him was the way he cocked the bat back..
    not that i am an expert. just pointing out what the experts noticed and the fact francoeur on the sidelines mirrored the issue. so it must have come up between the 2.

  13. decent at bat. but he’s still trying to hard to hit it out of the park into kentucky..

  14. thanks for the commentary.

    i cant watch or follow on mlb.

    how is niese doing? is he able to avoid most problems?

  15. striking out i guess.. triple switch or some craziness.
    cora is out bay is out.. i missed a lot of it. work interrupted my watching the game

  16. The genius of JRRY mManuel. Double switching so we can have Castillo up to put down a sacrifice bunt.

  17. Wow. Pagan is only out by three feet trying to steal second with two outs. What a great brand of hustling, smart baseball the Mets are playing. Now the Mets bullpen has to get six outs while Cincinnati only has to get three, as Bob Prince would say.

  18. Dan. lets not be too nasty.. they are playing decent ball considering the manager they have to ignore ;-)

  19. Miguel Cairo. Arthur Rhodes. Cincinnati has all the players you thought retired five years ago.

  20. yeah but they are still viable. so why is it we get the rejects? after julio franco last of the IRONMEN every old timer petered out under our organization.

  21. NICE.. extra innings .. fight fight fight.. this is becoming a team finally.

  22. You don’t know how long this will last. Why would you take out your hottest bat? Just for a double switch. I don’t see it.-JD

  23. Oh well….Feliciano has been so great that he was due to give up one.

  24. why take wright out? he’s been the hero today.
    unreal. these mets gave him a great game and he deconstructed it.. watch we find out he’s been betting against the team :-o
    (just kidding kinda..

  25. Some losses hurt more than others. The blow out losses in Philadelphia is one thing, but they lost two in Cincinnati they could have won but let get away.-JD

  26. A QUICK WRAP/Game #28

    FINAL: Reds 5, Mets 4 (10).
    RECORD: 15-13.
    THUMBNAIL ANALYSIS: Jon Niese gave the Mets a chance to win, but received little run support. The Mets rallied in the ninth, but the Reds won it in the tenth off Pedro Feliciano. The Mets lost the rubber game of the series and finish the road trip at 2-4.
    ON THE MOUND: Niese was in trouble most of the day, giving up 12 hits in six innings, but most importantly didn’t walk anybody. He gave up homers to Brandon Phillips and Jonny Gomes in the fifth.
    AT THE PLATE: David Wright homered again. … Jose Reyes, Alex Cora and Jeff Francoeur, the latter to tie the game in the ninth. … The Mets left the bases loaded in the third. … Jason Bay left six runners by himself.
    IN THE FIELD: Niese took his time fielding a bunt and made a lazy throw to first in the fourth that cost him an out and consequently a run. Alex Cora started at second over Luis Castillo. Gary Matthews started in right over the bruised Francoeur.
    LOOKING AHEAD: The Mets are off tomorrow and begin a three-game series Friday night at Citi Field. Mike Pelfrey is scheduled to start.
    -JD

  27. 83. this was lost by Manuel. i wont even blame the players they are did their part. Manuel deconstructed it.

  28. what do we have to change so that the jobs know that they have to run on ‘new’ servers?
    the System ID
    what is the system ID
    R2S and SRS

  29. 88. *LMAO* yeah. wait i lied its baseball : so what we do is take Right field 2 Second.
    and Second to Right then Short field it.
    :-P

  30. yeah and? they couldnt take someone else out? why dave he was a bloody hero .. *sigh* oh well..

  31. WRIGHT UPDATE: In listening to Jerry, he said he needed to keep Tatis in the game because he was their emergency catcher. … If that’s the case, then Jerry ran out of players. Not a good job.-JD

  32. What a thoroughly depressing loss. My observations:

    1. Time to end the Reyes batting 3rd experiment. He isn’t Hanley, he isn’t Beltran.
    2. The bullpen is so overtaxed right now it isn’t even funny. We’ve been so tuned to want the starters to go at least 6 innings, but you know sometimes they need to go 7, 8, or even 9.
    3. Jerry definitely reverted to his old form with the double switch. There is no way to sugarcoat how little sense this made.
    4. Bay is just killing the team right now. 1 homer and 9 RBI with a .238 avg is not worth 15 mil. I know this is his MO usually, but I can’t understand how someone can struggle all that much.
    5. I understand GMJ needs to get into a game every now and then, but twice in four days is crazy. He is just plain awful. Keep in mind of course that Frenchy since his hot start has been awful too, but at least he’s been driving in runs.
    6. What does Chris Carter have to do to get called up? Turn 30 years old tomorrow?

  33. Steve O (98): In response:

    1. Agreed. I never liked it and Reyes isn’t doing anything to warrant staying with this idea.
    2. The pen is pitching well for the most part, but it is throwing way too many innings. Eventually it will burn out. Takahashi has been throwing three innings at a pop. They need more from their starters. I would have given Niese one more today.
    3. Yes. The Wright move was running out of players which should never happen to a manager. He lost Bay in the Takahashi switch, not that Bay would have done anything later.
    4. Even during his nine game hitting streak Bay wasn’t hitting with power. His run production has been terrible. History says he will come around, but when? Maybe it is time to give him a night off.
    5. Francoeur has been battered and bruised. He needed a day off, and with tomorrow an off day it would have amounted to two days. Still, he played today.
    6. I would like to see Carter, too. But, who goes?-JD

  34. 1. we all agree
    2. its the pitch count, if i apitcher is hot leave him in. if the pitcher isnt hot but we arent losing leave him in.
    3. running out of players doesnt mean you get rid of your ace.
    4. bay isnt as bad as some others.. i think its where he;s hitting in the rotation.
    5. he had a bullseye painted on him in philly i would like to have seen a philly or 2 get it..
    6. i would say ollie but he had a decent outing .. so did maine. if one of them blows again do it then .. for a feeler period.

  35. (99) I don’t understand the significance of the Wright double-switch. Did Wright give up the dinger to Cabrera or something? To me, you complain about that _when_ it costs you something. Today, it didn’t cost them anything. As such, the criticism seems somewhat premature and, dare I say, unwarranted.

    (100) Mark Prior was hot — they definitely left him in. Ditto for Pulsipher and Isringhausen, too. The idea that you despise and/or don’t understand pitch counts doesn’t detract from their validity.

  36. Tiffany (101): Yes, the Wright switch turned out to be a moot point, but it doesn’t change the fact Jerry could have managed himself into a bad situation. … No, it didn’t cost them the game, but it could have. To me it was a case of over managing. … Pitch counts aren’t going to go away, but my point is they need more from their starters. They hit 100 way too soon. Unless they get more from the rotation their bullpen will burn out, as we saw in 2007 and 2008.-JD

  37. pitch counts are guodelines. The reds seem to go well beyond 100. 120 plus.

  38. oh and so did the phillies,.
    seems like M&M live the pitch count.
    Tiffany fine love the pitch count and see pitchers go no more than 5-6 innings …
    i would love to get paind 60million to throw 100 pitches every 6 days as a starter..

  39. (104) I don’t love pitch counts — I UNDERSTAND and RESPECT them. There’s a difference.

    The baseball highway is littered with young arms that were abused by managers who eschewed pitch counts. Ignore pitch counts at your own peril, but don’t act like those who understand and respect them are flat-earthers.

  40. oh an tiffany i am not being negative to you. i am just frustrated watching a pitcher that is doing well taken out to lose. and having people going it necessary. people get hurt on the job all the time..

  41. meanwhile.. corporate america will make people program and work 24 hours a day sick or not carpal tunnel etc. and they get paid lesst than 80 grand a year,. and these young arms as you call it make more in 5 years then we could ever make. you know what. if i am done pitching at 30 and have 100 million in the bank. god bless america.

  42. (102) I would argue that running up pitch counts is an offensive strategy in today’s game, designed to get into the other team’s weakest arms (their middle relievers) sooner than later.

    As I noted in a post earlier this week, the Met bullpen isn’t really being worked more than in the past, when you factor in that 20-inning fluke. Unlike other years, I happen to think that Jerry has a reliable set of arms in the pen — there’s no one who’s off-the-charts ineffective and ready for mop-up duty only (outside of injury-placement arm Manny Acosta and, perhaps, Sean Green) — which is allowing him a nice distribution of innings and appearances. That said, they do miss Igarashi.

  43. (106) People making $5 million per year do not get hurt on the job all the time.

    (107) How would a pitcher retiring at age 30 with $100 million in the bank help his team? It behooves the team to take care of the arm, just like it behooves the agent. Why would a business want to miss out on hundreds of millions in earning potential because of a careless decision?

  44. just putting things in proportion. :-)
    you dont hear tom terrific or any of the greats or worsts complain they threw too much.

    the strategy is all gone. 7th inning new pitcher.. most times. easily figured out. and compensated for and thats why Jerry over managed. he knew new picthers were coming and and played too many players for it.. bad formula.. but like every one said it isnt going away. but ii can still dislike it.
    ;-)

  45. Pitch Counts

    Ok so we have this discussion on pitch counts.

    If we keep the rule of 100 arm motions and the guy leaves for some other guy.

    We also have the 25 man thing.

    So you can always add more one batter relief guys so your pen doesn’t get burnt from pitching 5 innings for 162 games. Or you can keep your 12 pitchers and their arm falls off in September.

    I say starters need to go 7 at least.

    The problem is at least for the Mets, most of the starters are really relievers anyway.

  46. (110) The “worsts” don’t complain they threw too much? You think Bill Pulsipher would agree with that — or do you imagine he’d express some regret regarding how many pitches he threw in 1995? How about Mark Prior — you think he’s content with his career?

    The strategy is all gone? Which strategy is that — the strategy of handing the ball to a starter and letting him throw 170 pitches and complete the game? I’d argue there’s a whole new strategy about taxing pitchers with deep counts and foul balls; to be sure, if you want your pitcher throwing about 15-18 pitches per inning, then one 10-pitch AB practically curtails his ability to get you to the sixth or seventh. Moreover, the strategy is also to get to the middle relievers. The Yankees execute this about as well as anyone: They value hitters who run deep counts and draw walks.

  47. (111) I remember when the argument was whether to have a 9- or 10-man pitching staff; now, it’s 12 or 13.

    As for your suggestion that starters go 7 at least, I’d like to suggest that my neighbor’s dog learn to play the violin and sing like Kate Smith. As I’ve noted previously, there’s nobody in the NL _averaging_ 7 innings anymore.

  48. 113

    yes

    and that is because they train them differently then they used to. i posit that these guys are idiots and they need to get away from the fads that dont work and teach pitchers how to pitch again.

    are you going to post your neighbor’s dog singing to the violin?

  49. (114) He sings _and_ plays the violin. And, yes, I’ll post it as soon as you get those pitchers to throw seven innings again. Deal?

  50. Oh man i wanted to here the dog singing NY NY. darn it.

    Tiffany, if i am expected to be on call 24 hours a day and still work the next day. then expecting a pitcher to work 7 innings 1once a week for millions of dollars is fair. If you are worried about their health, dont they have better medical coverage than all of us. But if you think they arent getting the proper medical attention then join me in thinking the mets have an issue with their medical staff.
    Stop defending these millionaires. I get paid barely enough to pay all my bills and there have been times when i work through days with maybe 2 hours sleep. Is that fair to me and my health? when do i get a break? I dont.
    well a pitchers job is to pitch, and if he’s making 50 million then pitch. make sure you strengthen the arm and take vitamins and every other damn thing. but go out there and work like i am expected to do every day for fractions less than they make.
    I have no love for millionaires that dont do the job. that goes for sports , politicians all of them .. All the owrk i do is being off shored to India and china and I fight tooth and nail to get work and stay employed even if that means working through several nights.
    The pitchers you are protecting work 1 day a week for 3 hours? thats damn good pay.. and you keep mentioning one pitcher out of thousands. Orel Hershiser(sic) is now a commentator making even more money. so is ronnie. you dont hear any of them complain they through too much.
    If anything feel for the bull pen that have to go out every day and pitch far more in the long run .. the argument doesnt work. yes the count isnt going away and this is all just mental athletics. I had a plan i mentioned before and we see the mets using it. There are no starters just a round robin of pitchers.. thats how i see baseball now.. little elague everyone gets a chance to throw the ball in the game. 1 pitcher an inning every day. woohoo.
    ;-)

  51. its still early so please forgive the mis words

    here->Hear
    through-> threw.

    my brain and my fingers sometimes do their own thing :-)

  52. (116) You have so many issues, Steve, I don’t know where exactly to start — and I’m not sure this is the right forum for the type of comprehensive evaluation required.

    1. It’s not a medical coverage issue — it’s an issue of economic investment. The only reason the Mets are paying Johan Santana $137 million is that they believe he will make at least that much back in profit for them. As such, treating this investment with care is much akin to, say, changing the oil in your car or the filter in your furnace.

    2. If you have issues with millionaires, might I suggest you find another hobby than watching baseball? Seriously, if that’s your issue, you’re likely going to have a hard time reconciling it with this group.

    3. I’m not defending millionaires — I’m defending the actions they are taking which, in turn, are guided by economics. In short, if you burn out an arm, you have to go find another one — and premium arms aren’t cheap.

    4. There’s nothing stopping you from applying for a job with Tata in Bangalore. You could still access this blog via the Internet, no?

    5. Interesting that you mention Ron Darling, as he would appear to be a case of a guy whose career was compromised by the lack of attention to pitch counts. While he came out of the gate as one of the best pitchers in the league, by the time Darling was about 27 or so, he became league-average at best, most likely the reflection of being overworked in his early 20s. The same holds true for Gooden, as well. The Mets got their one championship, but they certainly didn’t get a dynasty from those young arms.

    6. In addition to suggesting one-year contracts and unlimited free agency some 40 years ago, Charlie Finley also thought up the idea of using each pitcher every day for one inning.