Not sold Bay is the way to go ….

As the Mets continue to put the full court press on Jason Bay, I keep thinking, “if this is all they do they haven’t improved enough to win.” Maybe not even enough to contend.

Their offense will get better with the returns of Wright, Reyes and Beltran. Made stronger with Bay, But, their pitching is still four-deep in questions with the rotation and lacking depth in the bullpen.

They finished fourth without Bay. They can finish fourth with him if their pitching stays the same.

20 thoughts on “Not sold Bay is the way to go ….

  1. It looks to me I am the only one wanting the team to rebuild from scratch which also means No Manuel and No Minaya.

  2. They are supposed to hear from Bay today. One way or another thats good news. This feels like its been dragging on forever.

  3. #1, so what we go and trade everyone at their lowest value and grab a bunch of prospects and rebuild the organization from scratch? Or do we just go into a shell for the typical met 4-5 years and wait till we get a new core again to build around?

  4. #3 – either way you its a vicious cycle. damned it you do and damned if you don’t. sometimes to fix a leg you have to re break it and set it properly.

    The Mets are broken and have yet to heal right. This worked for the Marlins , not that I agree with doing every 3 years like them, but ya know its worth a shot.

    Getting the older players has yet to work for this team. Everyone and no one wants to be the leader….

    But hey what do i know, i just root for them and watch good money after bad spent on no shows.

  5. 1/3: James has this one exactly right. You can’t trade guys after injury plagued years, and the rebuilding ship sailed out of port anyway the day the Mets decided to keep Minaya. A total rebuild would have required a new GM and a new mindset from the owner. Even rebuilding from scratch is a misnomer. Teams that use the farm as the main nucleus still go out and fill holes from the free agent pool. Washington is as “rebuild” as you can get, yet they signed Dunn last year and are hunting for veteran pitchers on the FA market. The O’s are doing the same thing. Teams that only use the farm never get good as they tend to trade their guys once they start making $$$.

  6. i said Minaya and Manuel would need to go , first and fore most.
    So we will have another lost year maybe. and then what? right now i do not want to see us spend 60-80 million on one player.

  7. 6. Yes, indeed, you did say that but Minaya is here. So, how do you propose to rebuild with the same GM. Would you proceed with your plan with Mnaya as the GM?

    As for the Marlins, the ’97 team had many high paid veterans that were brought in to buy a playoff which they did very well. You have a much stronger case with the ’03 group. So we’re only talking of one success story not 2.

  8. I find it interesting that rebuilding is such a terrible idea to many of you. This includes giving M&M the boot.

    However it seems perfectly logical , to you , that we spend 80 million for a pitcher blowing our payroll when we don’t have the proper support staff to keep the win.

    Hey i will just sit back the trades you all agree with will be made and we will see where we are at the end of the season.

    I really hope you are all correct and i am the one that is wrong. but lets see. oh yeah i was right about delgado and a few others.. but wait that still makes me wrong.

    well its friday. and its christmas time. so merry xmas one and all … and may you have a happy and safe New year!

  9. To really start from scratch is doing what the marlins did after 97. Trade all of your high paid stars for prospects and wait 4-5 years. The first time that was tried here it was called the midnight massacre and made M Donald Grant the most hated man in Mets history. Then in the mid nineties they tried it again with Bonilla and a few others. The last time was the early 2000s when we dumped Burnitz, Alomar and Benitez. What was common about all 3 of these events? Not one of the prospects we got back contributed to a playoff appearance and was followed by several terrible years.

  10. yeah but look who our GM was at the time, phillips maybe?

    Burntiz blew chunks.
    Benitez choked during high pressure innings.

    We need to use the farm better like the old days. I never said it would be pretty or even perfect. but instead of spending a ton of cash which will jack up the ridiculous prices of a ticket. we could watch kids trying harder.
    and i said we should keep wright/beltran and probably Murphy unless we can get a better first baseman.
    those who are permanently injured need to be let go. WE dont need another Delgado or Pedro.

    But at least a real effort would be made to spark life.

    bare minimum is get rid of Manuel. i stated this earlier. just to whip everyone in shape. bring back Bobby V. at least he was fair and knows the game.

  11. Well I still like Minaya enough to give him a bit more leash I am generally in the minority on that opinion, and it is more about who I think the Wilpons would put in then Omar himself to be honest.

    Manuel never should have lasted this season honestly injuries or not. He was a joke of a manager last year that fielded a team that didn’t even try to win night in night out and kept his job. Worst decision by Mets management in awhile (and that is saying a lot).

    My point is not that I disagree that some rebuilding wouldn’t be warranted, but this would be terrible time to do it. Why would you trade Wright/Beltran/Reyes/Santana/Maine/Perez/K-Rod after last year? You dont becuase you would be trading them at a terrible value and making an even bigger mistake.

    We have to sort out which of those pieces are part of the solution going forward and which are not, most of which we cant do now. We are simply not in a situation to really rebuild.

  12. 10. Steve C. You say we’ll be bad for a year. The Marlins; everybody’s favorite rebuilding team. 1 year? Hardly..
    98 Fish 54-108
    99 Fish 64-98
    00 Fish 79-82
    01 Fish 76-86
    02 Fish 79-83
    03 Fish Champs
    % losing seasons not 1. NYC will tolerate 5 losing seasons in a row. Hardly.
    Orioles rebuilding 12 losing seasons in a row.
    Pirates rebuilding 17 losing season in a row.
    How would a Met rebuild get accomplished in one season?

    As to we need to use the farm better like the olden days; in 69 we needed to get Clendenon to get over the hump and Cardwell and Taylor and Grote and Agee and Weis and Charles and Koonce, and Shamsky and Martin. And that was before arbitration salaries and free agencies. And our best player was an accident. We didn’t draft Seaver. He was pulled out of a hat because of an illegal sign.
    And what recent championship team had a greater bunch of homegrown players? Probably the Yankees of 1996-2000, with Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Williams and Pettitte. So are you advocating a Yankee system?

  13. I used to think that New York could withstand a rebuilding, but not anymore. No matter who the GM is here, the Wilpons have too much invested with the new stadium to deal with crowds like they used to have in the late 70′s and early 80′s. Like Harry said, there is no way that the Mets could stand 4 or 5 losing years in a row.

  14. As far as bay goes, he fulfills one of the major needs of the club which is a power hitting left fielder. But again, that is just one of the holes. Like JD said, they need to improve upon the pitching. They need bounce back years from Coin Flip and Maine to pitch like they did in 2007 and Pelfrey to pitch like he did in 2008. It’s alot to ask for, but right now this is what their lot in life is. I’m not convinced that Lackey/Marquis/Pinero would have been players to push them over the top either.

  15. Steve,

    The problem with starting from scratch as you say is that Omar is running the show. I know you include him in the they must go thing, but he is here and so far is not going anywhere.

    He has been here at least 5 years and so far has proven:

    1. cant draft worth a damn
    2. cant develop worth a damn

    I have been saying for the past few weeks that we should go young and focus on the draft and developing the players, but I also know that Omar has proven that he has no clue.

    I think the first thing to do is get rid of him.

    But so far we aren’t.

    So with the above, I say go get bay if we can keep it to 4 with a club option and whatever money we are offering.

    We could use his power regardless if we bring back delgado or not.

    we need pitching more but what is out there? not much. for pitching we have to draft and develop. We got lucky with Santana and wont go after the likes of CC or Haladay or Lee or anyone else who is worth something.

    Parnell should be in AAA and Pelfrey too.
    However if we do that we have no rotation. Not that we have one with them.

  16. John

    As I state above we should get Bay without getting stupid.

    We are not going to improve our pitching. If we are smart we get one or preferably 2 of the second tier guys. That would improve us but our rotation will still be second rate.

    Because of what happened last year and the horrible rotation and horrible defense, we need more power.

    If we can get Bay and Delgado comes back at a very reasonable contract we will have more power which should cover some of our very glaring deficiencies.

  17. With the above we can wait a year or two for the following:

    Ike
    Thole
    Niese
    Holt
    Niewenhuis
    FMart

    + some of the other younger guys i have forgotten.

    I have been waiting for us to improve by trade or free agent for 4 years now. It aint happening. At least not with this crew.

    That is why we need to spend some money on some productive but overpaid players and draft and develop.

    I hope management wakes up and kills the jokers running the team.

  18. So what i see is we all agree that M&M Both need to go. what we disagree on is a total rebuild, which i half understand.

    what we dont agree on is i dont think we should spend all that cash on Bay.

    so I can live with the final disagreement ;-) I think bay will be another Pedro/delgado – my opinion.

    rebuild it would be nice but ok may not be overly feasible and understand that.

    so that leaves the agreed upon ousting Manuel and Minaya..
    i say we put a petition together and mail it to the wilpons.
    if you dont replace them we boycott the stadium ;-)

  19. I have been saying for most of the year that they need to go.

    i also want to get more involved in the draft because that is the way to get better.

    but i dont have much hope that they can/will because minaya cant draft and he cant develop the farm