Changes in attitude ….

There were some interesting comments late last night on the Manager of the Year post. I was asked whether I saw young guys seemingly not care after a loss.

I sure did. Saw it during the games, too. And, yes, Tom Glavine and Billy Wagner spoke out about it. I wrote it several times. Some guys, Lastings Milledge for one, and Jose Reyes was another, who came across as not caring at times.

GLAVINE: Quote misunderstood.

GLAVINE: Quote misunderstood.


Although Carlos Beltran is quiet, I never got that impression from him. Carlos Delgado? Well, let’s just say he never wore a loss on his face.

As far as Glavine being a fraud? I don’t buy it. Never have and never will. Yes, he got shelled, and yes he answered a question by saying “this is not devastating.” Glavine’s problem was he was too literal in his use of the word. The rest of the quote, and I’m paraphrasing, “is losing a child or a loved one is devastating not losing a baseball game.”

In that context he’s right. Believe me, he was embarrassed and angry at his performance. He just wasn’t devastated.

15 thoughts on “Changes in attitude ….

  1. Sorry, of course this that loss was not like losing a child or loved one, but he should have been devastated and he shouldn’t have been going out of his way to point out that he was not devastated.

    The difference between Lastings and Reyes for me is important (and maybe a little biased). For Reyes, I think he is affected by loses, but his whole game is predecated on energy and emotion, so seeing him still bouncing around the dugout doesn’t bother me as much even in a loss. Lastings always gave the impression that this was about him, it had nothing to do with anything else that happened on the field, this was all about Lastings.

    I could see that Reyes wanted to win and do what he could for the team, and I think while his emotional antics grated on the team I think they are an important part of his game and his contribution to the team.

  2. You won’t sell me on defending Glavine Delcos. It was obvious from the moment he signed that he was at the time, and remained a Brave until the second he weasled his way back. He didn’t want to be here and it showed. Defend Beltran and I’ll agree, but Glavine, not while he was in Queens. I’m sure he would have said different words if he had blown the season for his beloved Braves. As far as I’m concerned he got his just reward when the Braves shunted him aside unceremonially.

    As for the young guys, if you’re talking about last year, was it that they didn’t care, or was it a reaction the thier handling by the joke manager who played mind games with them and lied publicly about their roles on an almost daily basis.
    As for Delgado, maybe he didn’t care, or maybe you shouldn’t play poker with him…..

  3. Harry (2): On Glavine, I’ll never convince you. That’s spitting in the wind. We’ll continue to agree to disagree. … I don’t think he really wanted to be here, either, but when he was pitching he didn’t dog it.

    About the players last year, I think it was a combination of both. We saw a lot of players not hustle, and we also saw the manager mishandle things. Well, mishandle more than a few things.-JD

  4. JamesSC (1): My point is Glavine was too literal about the word devastated and applied it to losing. I talked to him after that day. I looked into his eyes. I know he was upset.-JD

  5. JD: Glavine was a fraud in the sense that he did not want to play in NY and tried to back out of the contract in order to beg the Braves to take him back. However, I do not believe for one second that he wasn’t hurt tremendously by that game against the Marlins and that he didn’t want to win. And people with short memories forget that he pitched very well for the Mets in 2006 in both the NLDS and NLCS.

  6. At least Glavine didnt say he was bored. I hope maybe this injury will wake Reyes up. Its easy to forget about his not hustling and his laughing and joking when the Mets were getting beat. Easy to pick on Milledge since hes gone.

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  8. Steve (5): I won’t dispute you on that point. He didn’t want to leave the Braves. But, when that didn’t work he was a true professional in the clubhouse and on the mound.-JD

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  10. #7, I agree that Glavine was professional about it and he pitched well for us in some games and I certainly don’t believe that he threw that last game or anything silly like that. But I don’t think it is true that that loss affected him as much as it SHOULD have, I think the minute he walked off the mound that day he told himself he wasn’t a Met any more and I think he separated himself from the rest of what happened.

    I am 100% sure that those words and thoughts would never have entered his mind if he had the exact same performance in the exact same situation as a Brave. Glavine won me over a little bit in 2006 and I think I could have had a good feeling about him even after that final game, but now I never want to see him in Citi Field or any other Met related activity again.

    And I got to admit, I felt he got the just deserts when the Braves discarded him as used trash last year.

  11. Funny, all the stories the day after Glavine shat the bed had Reyes being inconsolable in the locker room. Beltran, Delgado and others were also evidently upset.

    Just because a guy doesn’t lose his cool and throw stuff or scream does not mean he does not care. Some guys internalize it.

    Many times, we fans expect the players to act like we do. I know I tend to throw the occassional item after a tough loss. Players don’t always react the same way.

    Just like at my (and I would think most other people’s jobs), if something goes awry, I don’t throw stuff.

  12. Ed (10): I’ve also seen Reyes very consolable after losses. … I’m not saying he doesn’t care. … I’ve always felt players don’t take losses the way the fans do. It’s hard to explain, but at least in the clubhouse they seem composed. Most of them, anyway.-JD

  13. I don’t expect the player to go nuts and start throwing things around or pulling a Wade Boggs and sit on the bench crying in the dugout. IMO, Glavine will never live down that quote in this town, and IMO I don’t think he should because I do think it was an accurate representation of his feelings.

    Sure he cared that he lost, sure he wanted to win. But only in the professional sense. His heart was never really a part of this team and I don’t think he felt like he was really a part of the team from the moment he walked off the field. He was done and this was just an interesting chapter in his life and a job he worked hard at. No one will ever convince me that if the exact same thing happened in a Brave uniform he wouldn’t have reacted differently.

    And heck, I don’t even blame the guy, he came here for cash not love and so I can’t even really kill him for it. But since I bleed blue and orange it does change my feelings for the guy. No way around that.

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