METS CHAT ROOM: Game #134; Dimensions to stay the same.



Reportedly, the dimensions at Citi Field will remain the same next year, probably to the dismay of National League hitters everywhere, including those in the first base dugout. The Daily News reported GM Omar Minaya and manager Jerry Manuel recommended the status quo.

And, it shouldn’t, because if you’re going to tailor a stadium, it better be in favor of pitching.

According to, Citi Field averages 1.67 home runs per game, 11th out of the 16 National League stadiums. Shea Stadium averaged 2.15 home runs per game in 2008. A significant explanation has to be the injuries to Carlos Delgado and Carlos Beltran, and David Wright’s horrendous power slump. The Mets enter today’s game at Colorado last in the major leagues with 77 home runs.

Said Wright: “I would say it’s probably built the opposite than for me. I think one of my strengths is driving the ball to right field. I sometimes think I have to hit it twice to get it out there. It is what it is. It’s not something I’m going to complain about or anybody else should complain about. It’s the park and we have to adapt.”

Greg Rybarczyk/Hit Tracker

Greg Rybarczyk/Hit Tracker

Shea Stadium was 378 feet in right center; Citi Field ranges from 378 to 415 feet in that area. Left center at Citi Field ranges from 364 to 384 feet, but features a 15-foot wall. Some hitters, such as Jeff Francoeur, thinks a normal sized wall would be fine.

In keeping the dimensions the same, at least for 2010, the Mets aren’t making a panic move based on one season. The injuries along with the unseasonable weather for much of the first half had to contribute to the fall off in power. As the season progressed, power numbers did spike.

In the long run, it is better to have a pitcher friendly part than a hitter friendly site such as Coors Field, where the Mets are playing today. If a franchise builds it team on pitching, defense and speed, it has a better chance of winning than a team built solely on power, such as the old Red Sox and Cubs teams in Fenway Park and Wrigley Field, respectively. As much as a launching pad old Yankee Stadium was, it was deeper in left and center, and those teams were as much pitching as power.

The Mets conclude their series with the Rockies with Pat Misch taking on Jason Marquis.

Here’s today’s line-up:

Angel Pagan, CF
Anderson Hernandez, 2B
David Wright, 3B
Daniel Murphy, 1B
Jeff Francoeur, RF
Cory Sullivan, LF
Josh Thole, C
Wilson Valdez, SS
Pat Misch. LP

150 thoughts on “METS CHAT ROOM: Game #134; Dimensions to stay the same.

  1. Don’t you find pitcher’s duels more exciting than 10-9 games? If the Mets’ pitching was worth a damn this year, they’d be in contention, even with their dismal power numbers.-JD

  2. John (2) I’ve read about Misch – he’s not a new pitcher, is he? – he just hasn’t won in a long time.

  3. Another day, another reason not to get Evans into the game in Left Field. WHAT IS MANUEL DOING????????????

  4. (1)JD: I don’t know if you read my post in the Pelfrey thread, his regression is the worst story to come out of this season. Without him to count on next year, the Mets have ONE viable starting pitcher on their staff next year, and even he is coming off surgery. Next year is shaping up to be awful too.

  5. Steve (4): Please don’t ask me any questions that I have no clue how to answer. LOL. … I agree with you 100 percent on Pelfrey. There is no given in the Mets’ rotation for next season. And, no, I don’t see any immediate answers on the horizon.-JD

  6. The Mets are first in the NL in steals with 106. I don’t think the fences should be moved in at Bailout Ballpark, just get better and healthier players to play in them. I just shudder when people talk about “you win with speed”. Some of the worst deals in Mets history are made with getting speed in the lineup: trading away Staub, getting Vince Coleman and Pepe Mangual. The Yankees had a disastrous experience in the early 1980s with Dave Collins from Rapid City.
    Improve the pitching and defense (and health). It’s nice to have some high OBA guys although the Mets are 7th now (surprisingly the Gnats are 3rd. They must really miss Tim Redding).
    I like variety in games. 1-0 games can be spine-tingling but I grew up in the 60s with a slew of 1-0, 2-1 games. I don’t like it when a team is down 3-0 in the second and the chances of a comeback are as remote as an unselfish, generous deed by Paris Hilton.

  7. (6) JD: I mean in all seriousness, i’m sure Evans isn’t much more than a bench player at best, but wouldn’t it make sense to see him play? I mean wouldn’t it??? lol. I guess they already have made up their minds about him, that is all I can deduce from jerry not playing him.

  8. Dan (9): I grew up in the same era and I prefer the lower scoring games when runs actually meant something. … I don’t advocate going totally for speed. But, improving the pitching, defense and fundamentals are all more important than adding one power bat. … If the Mets just hit better with RISP and didn’t give away so many at-bats they’d be much better. … Afterall, they had a lot of power the last two years and still didn’t win, right? … BTW, nice line about Paris Hilton.-JD

  9. (9) Trading away Staub had nothing to do with getting speed in the lineup. The Mets were in love with his 170 AB’s and hitting streak. Plus I think Staub was coming up for a new contract and they didn’t want to pay up. Funny, Mickey Lolich’s 8 & 13 record and 3.22 ERA would make him the staff ace today….lol

  10. Thole should have had that. It’s nerves. If the guy can hit, they’ll find a spot for him eventually. I’m not so sure his catching skills will evolve to where he’d make the majors next year.-JD

  11. (11) Annie: I think he was a scrap heap claim. But what the heck, he is young and left handed and I think was pretty well regarded by the Giants when he was in their system.

  12. Steve (17)- Maybe he’ll find a home with the Mets – and of course if he wins a game….the sky’s the limit :)

  13. Steve (17): If you’re left-handed, you’ll get a chance. Maybe he could show enough to be a long man next season. … I’m cautious of writing him and Parnell out of the rotation for next year because of all the starting questions among the starter. I just can’t see Figueroa being a full time starter.-JD

  14. John (1) – I love pitchers duels, and have been fortunate to see some good ones – even here on the Mets teams – twenty years ago…

  15. I see that Billy Wagner has 5 K’s in 2 innings of work with the Sox. In case anyone was wondering

  16. John (20) Sure – the winning streak will start immediately.. and please be kind to Figgy, please?

  17. Starting questions for next year:

    1) How will Santana be physically? You never can tell about surgery. Look at John Maine.

    2) How will Perez be physically? And, if he’s fine, will he ever get his head on straight? Your guess is as good as mine.

    3) How will Maine be physically?

    4) Will Pelfrey improve or take another step back? He’s Coin Flip II as far as I’m concerned.

    5) Who will be the fifth starter? Don’t forget, Niese is hurt, too.-JD

  18. (19) JD: If Parnell and Misch are part of next years rotation, then 2010 is finished.

  19. (24) The only thing with Santana is at least he has had the same thing done before and knows what it takes to bounce back. I’m not really worried. And of course the rest of the questions need to be addressed.

  20. Steve (22): Didn’t you know he’d pitch well? Would you be totally surprised if Wagner signed with somebody and had a monster season in 2010 and K-Rod being shelved with an injury? C’mon, admit it. You’ve considered the possibility.-JD

  21. John (24)
    1) Santana will be fine – even if he isn’t he won’t say so.
    2) Just occured to me – do the Mets have a Psychiatrist and/or Psychoanalyst on the staff or the Attending List? If not, they should.
    3) Maine will be fine – until he isn’t.
    4) Pelfrey will probably still be a problem – what was it he did after the game last night??
    5) Figueroa

  22. JD: With Wagner of course…but trading him really was the right move to make. I like Sullivan in a back up role..not much of an arm though.

  23. Annie (32): If Santana isn’t fine but says he is, we’ll know soon enough … They do have a psychologist. … Maine isn’t fine now. … Pelfrey stunk in his last start. … No way Figueroa is in the rotation. You’re not related to him are you?-JD

  24. Steve (34): They really didn’t have an option on Wagner. Who knows? Maybe the guys they got from Boston will turn out all right. … No. Sullivan doesn’t have a great arm. But, playing left field he doesn’t have to.-JD

  25. I said the line about trading away Rusty Staub to get speed is what Tom Seaver said that winter when his was a weekend TV sports guy for WCBS channel 2. It didn’t make any sense to me either. Especially when the Mets said Staub had a 10 year future ahead as a DH. Couldn’t they just move him to first? Not the Mets way, trade a guy who just set the team record for rbis for a pitcher who publucly said he was going to pitch for only one more year (not that many people liked Mickey Lolich either, he was the David Wells of his era).

  26. 4. Steve: Not playing Evans makes as much sense as Schneider playing vice Thole last night. An organization with no plan for the future, no plan for the present, maybe they flip coins, maybe Jerry thinks he can still mkae the playoffs?

  27. John (35)
    No, I’m not- I’m Irish/Norwegian and Figueroa isn’t. However I am a bit impressed that his degree is from Brandeis and that he does have a back-up plan if all this fails.

  28. I happened to notice recently Kleven was listed in the “recent obits” on baseball reference. He had one hit in his major league career, off Bruce Sutter. It had already been decided he would be sent to the minors and when he got it, Bob Murphy said what a thrill it was for him to get it.

  29. Dan (39): Fat like him, but I think he was better than Wells. As far as I know, he also wasn’t a jerk like Wells. … Wells, by the way, is on my all bad guy team.-JD

  30. Nice feature by Kevin on a gluten free concession stand. I did story once on hot dogs in ball parks and the Rockies have 17 different varieties.-JD

  31. (51) Annie: Believe it or not, that Home run derby was in 2006!!!!! Since then Wright hit 30 homers in 07 and 33 in 08. Nah, it’s Hojo’s fault for changing his ways of hitting

  32. Steve (54) Thanks for getting me up to date – however, I either heard or read something he has said about the configuration of Citi Field as compared to Shea.

  33. Steve (54): HoJo has to bear some responsibility. So does Manuel for endorsing the change and Wright for going along with it. … What has it gained him? If he were hitting .350 or .360, OK, but his average is comparable to what it was. … And, his RBI are way off.-JD

  34. I don’t think Lolich was as much as a jerk as Wells: teams weren’t getting rid of him every two years. But I remember seeing an interview on Canadian tv where former teammate Mike Kilkenny blasted Lolich. Lolich saw the left handed Kilkenny as a threat. Kilkenny also said Denny McLain had such a personality that you couldn’t help but chuckle about him.

  35. When the Mets have this “who did you enjoy watching more: Carter or Piazza:? I was tempted to say Jerry Grote. Not that Grote was better, just one of those things. Grote was more interesting to follow in his thinking process.

  36. Annie (65): I was tempted to put Jeter on just to get you going. … Jeter is Mr. Teflon. As a marquee player I’d wish he’d speak out more on the game’s issues. He is just too PC.-JD

  37. I once asked Jeter about the steroid issue and he said it wasn’t his concern because he didn’t take them. Bad answer, Mr. Perfect. It should be your concern. It should be the concern of every player.-JD

  38. Annie (67): Yeah. He had a nasty habit of talking about the writers behind our backs to other players. “Don’t talk to that guy.” … He was also rude and condescending.-JD

  39. John: that could be. How much is catchers vs pitchers calling decisions is hard to tell in the living room. But in the late 1980s Jack Lang wrote a book on the 1969 Mets20 years later. In it Grote talked about how he figured games would often come down to the 9th with a 7th or 8th place hitter at the bat. Grote said often early in the games in non-crucial situations he would call for pitches these guys could get a hit on. He figured such guys would be less hungry to get a hit in the 9th if they already had one.Maybe it was just beeswax but it was an interesting idea.

  40. Among the best I’ve dealt with are Wright, Ripken, Mussina, Cone, Pettitte, Girardi, Posada, Rivera, Wagner, BJ Surhoff, Rick Sutcliffe, Harold Reynolds, Delgado, Beltran, Brady Anderson and Glavine. There are others I am overlooking, but those guys come immediately to mind.-JD

  41. John (65)
    Ok, I’ll go just a bit. There are many famous athletes and others who shy away from personal comments. Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Nancy Lopez, Larry Bird etc. never comment about ‘issues’. Not sure why.

    Derek has always been like this – not sure if there is something he said when younger or if he just prefers to do his ‘teaching’ with his ‘Turn Two’ kids. I do know that growing up in Kalamazoo wasn’t always nice for him and his family.

    Still, I’d rather he say nothing, if that’s his choice.

  42. (74) Annie: Why would you be stunned? No one person in this world is perfect. I hate the Yankees, and I hate Jeter, but the guy plays the game the right way. In that respect he should be looked up to as a role model on how the game is supposed to be played.

  43. Annie (73): Jim Brown once took on Michael Jordan for his lack of commentary on social issues that impacted blacks. … Tiger is simply a prima donna. … I’ve heard Bird speak out on some things.-JD

  44. Steve (76): You’ll never hear me say one bad word about Jeter for how he plays the game. Always the right way. I can’t imagine what Jim Rice was thinking about.-JD

  45. Pagan has the physical skills to play left next year. He needs to improve his defense and baserunning. Still, if they could get a proven player who would hit 20 plus homers I’d take him.-JD

  46. Steve (76) No, you misread – I am stunned to hear this about Tino Martinez. I am practically irrational about Jeter and his behaviour both on and off the field – he’s made his parents and the Yankee organization very proud of how he has played for almost 15 years now.

  47. I always figure Derek Jeter as a reincarnation of Joe DiMaggio. A great player who is even greater at controlling his image and talking without saying anything. I don’t think Joe D ever said anything of interest in his life. Made a lot of money, in part because the number of syllables in his name fit better than Mickey Mantle’s in a Simon and Garfunkel song

  48. Misch just might win his very first game! Anthony Young…youre still in the books!!!

  49. Annie (80): Tino did play the game the right way. I just didn’t like his clubhouse demeanor. … But, that was never an issue when I wrote about him. I was onboard with keeping Martinez and not going after Giambi. … When they signed Giambi they went away from the make-up that won those four World Series. … Then it was Matsui … Sheffield … Randy Johnson and the star system.-JD

  50. Dan (81) And we all love that song, don’t we? Actually Derek Jeter will tell you that he doesn’t drink or do drugs because his Dad is an Alcohol and Drug Countsellor (With a PhD) for his Foundation and his Mom is a CPA who manages his money.

  51. Dan (81): Bingo. I’ve been saying that for years. He was a great player, but he became greater after his retirement as stories of him were passed down word of mouth. … By being aloof, it added to the mystery. … I would have taken Mantle over him. Ted Williams, too. … He called himself the greatest living player. That’s how he wanted to be introduced. … Sorry, Aaron, Mays and Musial all were better. DiMaggio had a lot to do with all those World Series, but so would those guys if they were on the Yankees. … The unauthorized biography on DiMaggio was fascinating.-JD

  52. John (83) You are so right about Giambi and the others that followed. I was appalled. Too many druggies – I think this must have been about the time that George started to fail.

  53. As far as protecting his image, Jeter is a lot like Ripken. Both were guarded. I just saw Ripken do some things that were extraordinarily special. Like signing autographs outside the dugout at Camden Yards several times until 1 in the morning during his streak year.-JD

  54. Let’s not forget the Cardinals signed Tino Martinez after the Yankees went for the juicer and after two years decided to pay most of his contract for him to play in Tampa. That should tell us something.

  55. John (87) I believe he did say a few words to Sweeny after Alex Rodriguez spilled his guts last winter. But they were very carefully chosen words. He never forgave Alex for those comments in GQ?? all those years ago.

  56. #85 DiMaggio was named “greatest living player” in 1969 in some vote to celebrate “professional baseball’s centennial”. But yeah, he really took it to heart. Insisting he always be introduced as such and introduced last, even when the Yankees retired Mantle’s number. I don’t think Yogi insists on being introduced last when they retire Guidry’s number. But even so I was always amazed on people would drool over getting some bland quote from him.

  57. Dan (98): DiMaggio only agreed to show up at Mantle’s ceremony if the Yankees honored him, too. … Mantle said in his book DiMaggio was late in calling him off on a play in right center because he didn’t want to slide and as a result Mantle pulled up and blew out his knee. Mantle always wondered why DiMaggio did that. … DiMaggio was also notorious for not signing autographs to former players at Old Timers games.-JD

  58. Dan (98) the Media is so different now, not sure that the great players can ‘dis the press like that. I know Yogi doesn’t. John – comments?

  59. OK, here we are in the 7th inning 6-0 ahead and I just hope that Manuel doesn’t decide to rock the boat so that one of the bullpen guys ‘gets some work’.

  60. John (106) Can you believe that??? It’s that Schilling ego that will get him in trouble. However, I’ll bet he doesn’t even realize that a Republican nominee for the “Kennedy” seat has very little chance there.

  61. Tracy is playing this one to win because he knows the Mets’ pen is capable of blowing this lead. The Rockies came back vs. the Giants late. They can come back against the Mets.-JD

  62. In a lot of ways Joe DiMaggio and not Babe Ruth is the embodiment of the Yankees. Great player, with arrogance and a controlling image but who wins a lot. The Yankees were treading water before he showed up. Only one pennant/World series the previous seven years. Then, pow, 4 straight championships, 5 in 6 years. Some success in the middle WWII year/confused ownership (2 championships in 7 years) and finsihes it with three straight titles when they Yankees get set up with Weiss as GM and Stengel as manager. Ted Williams had plenty of critics in his time saying “He only hit .200 in the 10 biggest games of his career” (although I think such talk is stupid). But no one ever said that about DiMaggio.
    Misch could win this game. What other Mets pitchers have one win in their carer? Grover David Powell comes to mind.

  63. Steve (110): Yes, I have. Adversarial at first. Then I went to Elrod Hendricks, a coach with the Orioles at the time and told him to tell Eddie that I had nothing to do with how he was treated his first time in Baltimore and all I wanted was to cover a future Hall of Famer. Elrod passed along the message. Murray called me aside and told me he got the message and we got along fine after that.-JD

  64. Dan (113): Really think so? The Babe cast a pretty impressive shadow. … Speaking of Williams, I would have loved to have seen what would have happened if they made the deal for DiMaggio. The two GMs worked out the deal over drinks and called it off the next morning. … I’d also like to see what Williams’ career would have been had he done his average career numbers in the five years he missed while in the service (WWII and Korean War) as a pilot.-JD

  65. John (119) Not if they ask David Wright about it –
    Said Wright: “I would say it’s probably built the opposite than for me. I think one of my strengths is driving the ball to right field. I sometimes think I have to hit it twice to get it out there. It is what it is. It’s not something I’m going to complain about or anybody else should complain about. It’s the park and we have to adapt.”

    John would they change the dimensions just for David?

  66. Misch and Redding: Our Seaver and Koosman 40 years later. Let’s hope the bullpen does not blow this one.

  67. Gotta be happy with what Misch gave you. Did Rick Peterson fix him in 15 minutes? 😉

  68. Just like the movie Die Hard…if you don’t file your tax returns, the government WILL find you! lol

  69. Thole reminds me of Lenny Dykstra. The crouch. The choking up. The spread-out stance. The knowledge of the strike zone. The battling approach, making the pitcher throw a good pitch.

  70. Howie has put this game “in the books”. There were two important firsts for the Mets, Thole got his first hit, and Misch got his first win.

    Final Score: Mets 8 – Rockies 3

    Tomorrow, home again for a 7:10PM game against the Cubs.

  71. Just like Coleridge’s “Ancient Mariner” stoppeth one of three, our Mets beat their opponents out of three games. Our 60th win of the season. What time does the plane land in JFK so we can greet our heroes home?

  72. John

    not sure if stevec read your post but you are saying what he has been beating the drums on for years.

    I agree. The stadium is fine. They need to play better.

    Other teams come in here and launch it, so David only hitting 5 hr’s this year aint the new digs in Flushing.