METS CHAT ROOM: Game #89; Pelfrey and makeshift line-up vs. Braves.



The Mets can leave Atlanta in a double-digit hole. Things are that bad for our heroes. Mike Pelfrey and a rag-tag line-up try to stop the bleeding.

Here’s the line-up:

Angel Pagan, CF
Luis Castillo, 2B
David Wright, 3B
Gary Sheffield, LF
Jeff Francoeur, RF
Daniel Murphy, 1B
Alex Cora, SS
Omir Santos, C
Mike Pelfrey, RP

Pelfrey (7-4, 4.47 ERA) is 2-3 with a 5.08 ERA lifetime against the Braves. Pelfrey is coming off a solid outing against Cincinnati in which he worked seven innings and allowed three runs on five hits.

Jair Jurrjens (7-7, 2.91 ERA) will start for Atlanta. He is 2-1 with a 4.00 ERA lifetime against the Mets.

153 thoughts on “METS CHAT ROOM: Game #89; Pelfrey and makeshift line-up vs. Braves.

  1. i see murphy is playing again.

    is it because they believe in him more or that they have no choice?

  2. Braves are retiring Maddux number. When are the Mets going to retire another number?

  3. to conclude his speech he says- Lets beat the Mets – like old times. Its funny how everybody likes to beat the Mets. Its not like they have done anything the last 23 years.

  4. Hi everyone – I’m getting the game on WPIX tonight (!) so I hope the bad weather waits until after the game. Been a while since I’ve seen a game at Turner Field – keep looking for Ted and Jane.

    John (4) when was the last time the Mets retired anyone’s number?

  5. Mike Pelfrey is a hopeless pitcher and I’m convinced he will never be any good. I don’t care how good his “stuff” is…he’s a typical mentally weak Mets pitcher.

  6. As far as I’m concerned they should look at this loser as a #5 pitcher and nothing more. He sucks.

  7. 8. What stuff?
    2. Maybe they’ll reitre Piazza’s. Afterall he spent many years on the beloved Dodgers.

  8. Makeshift Mets lineup? Every night the Mets play with a makeshift lineup.
    And what a surprise — we’re getting bludgeoned at Turner Field!
    And another surprise last night: Ten years later, Mets managers still haven’t learned when Chipper Jones comes to bat with the game on the line and first base open — WALK HIM!

  9. Yeah, but at what point is Warthen partly responsible for Pelfrey’s regression this year?

    Bring back the Jacket.

  10. Anyone catch MLB Network’s “Classic Games” airing this afternoon of the Mets-Astros 1986 NLCS Game 3?
    Were any of you at that game?
    I was — and it remains the single best Mets home game I’ve ever attended.

  11. Tiffany (17): Very good point. A lot was expected of Pelfrey this season and he hasn’t lived up to it. The Jacket? What a character he was.-JD

  12. was game 3 when nails hit the homer?

    if so i was down the 3rd base line.

    great game.

  13. Harry(19)

    I know you are not a fan of Church, but yeah. It is hard to stay focused when people above you are questioning your right to exist.

  14. 21 You got it, Dave!
    Bob Murphy: “Len Dykstra, the man they call ‘Nails’ on the ballclub, is waiting…Now the delivery…and it’s swung on and a hiiiiiiigh fly ball hit to right field…it is fairly deep, it’s near the walllll…”
    Gary Thorne: “HE DID IT!”

  15. dave (24): The Mets never treated Church right. The concussion situation was deplorable. Manuel never showed any confidence in him.-JD

  16. Gil (26): That was a great game. I was covering the Jets at the time for the AP and we were watching it after practice in the press room. Terrific game.-JD

  17. how many hr’s does he have to give up before they take him out?

    perhaps they are doing a ron darling on him.

  18. Wow. Another bomb. The Mets getting Redding warmed up now is preparation to add a nuclear warhead to the inferno.
    Why haven’t the Mets released Redding yet?

  19. Pelfrey is simply awful tonight. This game is lost. They should let him stay in there to save the bullpen for the rest of this series.-JD

  20. OT – Word tonight of the death of Walter Cronkite at age 92. Probably remembered by most of us for his broadcast of the Kennedy Assassination and also the Space Program in its’ early days.

  21. If I were a watercooler in the Mets dugout right about now, I’d be very afraid to see Mike Pelfrey approaching when he walks off the maound. Very afraid.

  22. gil/john,

    that was a great team. if the mets had that team today we would win 125 games this year.

  23. 32 Annie: Cronkite passed away tonight? Very sad. A true journalism giant. :(

  24. Annie (32): Sad news. Don’t forget his coverage during the Vietnam War and the 1968 Democratic Convention. “And, that’s the way it was … ”-JD

  25. i say since they dont want to take him out they leave him in till the 7th.

    the damage has already been done.

  26. 35 Dave: Gotta subtract a few wins if the 86ers were playing today — amphetamines are banned in clubhouses today! :)

  27. Cronkite was from another era. a time when the news was not entertainment. when journalism had a gravity to it.

  28. Thanks for the news Annie. Even sad news is a good diversion from this game.

  29. Ah, I see Pelf didn’t take out his anger on the watercooler. Instead he goes Mike Hampton circa 2000 on the poor helmet rack…

  30. dave (41): True enough. Those guys actually worked at their craft. They weren’t talking heads and beauty contestant winners.-JD

  31. John (37) Just heard some comments by Brian Williams who called into the network and spoke on the phone for about 15 minutes. Brian recalled how his family always had to wait until after Walter’s newscast before they had dinner. In recent years, Walter actually had dinner a few times at Brian’s house.

    I do remember the Vietnam war coverage and the sadness with which Walter reported the death numbers. Also the melee in the streets of Chicago while Mayor Daley ( the first one) spoke expletives on the stage of the conventions and Abe Ribicoff chided him.

    There’s just so much of our history entwined in Walter’s life – in fact I sat next to him at my first Kentucky Derby – we talked horses.

  32. gil,

    yeah i know. but they had an awesome pitching staff. el sid their number 5 would be the #2 today. a great 8/9 combo and all the pitchers not named sid went at least 7.

    they played d ( except straw ), had power and speed. oh yeah, they had some guy at first who changed the way teams played the game.

    yeah. i think they would win 125 today. no one in the nl east would have any chance at the pennant by end of may.

  33. one more thing. their 3rd baseman had a career year. he was really good that year.

  34. 41. Right you are, Dave. Cronkite was what journalists are supposed to be: watchdogs of government, business and society, not lapdogs.
    Anyone catch that story today about the columnist claiming to be a journalist for the newspaper and website, The Hill, David Keene, the chairman of the American Conservative Union who offered FedEx $2 million to write glowing op-eds about that company, in exchange for support for his organization?
    Can anyone say “corporate sellout”?
    How about “conflict of interest” or “unethical”?
    Good journalism has become a joke.

  35. 49 Not so fast, Dave! Straw made a run-saving, running, backhanded catch in that 1986 NLCS Game 3 to end an inning.

  36. Gil (51): Journalism’s last greatest moment might have been Watergate. The SF Chronicle’s coverage of the steroid issue was superb.-JD

  37. he may have had a catch or two. but he was a butcher in the field. he was never my favorite player. but he always carried the team for about a month and a half when he got hot and single handedly kept them in it.

  38. John (53) Watergate – who can forget Ben Bradlee and Carl and Bob and the mystery man in the underground garage? Bradlee was a tough guy to please and made those guys really work. I remember the hearings that went on for such a long time, and jail time for some.

  39. 53 You’re right, JD. The work that resulted in the book “Game of Shadows” was outstanding.
    But so was the New York Times’s persistence in 1998 in trying to get elected officials to take seriously the Hart-Rudman Report in which it was stated that al-Qaeda represented the greatest threat to national security.
    Politico seems to be very much on the case in tracking down records showing S.C. governor Mark Sanford spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxpayer money to fly to Argentina to get freaky with his mistress and I hope it and other news organizations will deeply investigate Dick Cheney and his lying to and withholding information from Congress about CIA programs.

  40. Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: God, that sucker teed off on that like he knew I was gonna throw a fastball!
    Crash Davis: He did know.
    Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: How?
    Crash Davis: I told him.

    Accepting nominations.-JD

  41. dont know.

    i didnt say it was my favorite. i liked it. nice diversion and very superficial.

    i liked the scenes where the first baseman i believe prayed to his god and the catcher was trying to figure out where he was going in life and the game.

    my favorite movie right now is probably unforgiven. nice cast.

  42. 56 Dave: On that 1986 NLCS Game 3 commentary, Tim McCarver revealed an unfathomable stat: Darryl Strawberry went 0-for-45 at Shea in August.

  43. 62 JD, gotta disagree about Watergate being journalism’s last great moment.
    That happened in 1985 when Fletch nailed LAPD Chief Karlin as the biggest drug suplier from Oxnard to Santa Ana! :)

  44. John (59) It’s one of my very favorite movies, too – love the long speech Crash has in the beginning, and the meeting on the mound about the wedding presents. And of course, the bathtub scene at the end.

    And the character of Annie Savoy for obvious reasons……..

  45. 65

    yep. perhaps the dog days are when he and doc went out partying with the powder.

    Let Redding pitch some garbage time innings.

  47. 68 ed: We should all ask ourselves the last time we remember the Mets being entertaining to watch.

  48. pelf is out there cause they left him in.

    no reason to pull him after they made the decision to let the game go.

    it’s not like this team is catching anyone after spotting them 6.

  49. one more reason to change the coach. you take him out now and replace him with tim?

    cant wait till the season is over and they nuke this team starting with the gm and coacing staff.

  50. 71 Dave: And it’s not like this team is catching anyone 8 1/2 games out and a pile of teams to have to overtake for the Wild Card, either.

  51. 70

    06. that was a fun team to watch. it has been chinese water torture after that.

  52. Injuries are a convenient excuse for this team to use, but even if they had a healthy lineup, they still have losers like Oliver Perez and Pelfrey and I’ll even lump Maine into that category. These guys are all hopeless and will never amt to anything in the major leagues and this team certainly won’t ever win with losers like this making up 2-4 in their rotation

  53. 72 Dave, I agree with you 100%. That’s why I wish the Mets would kick Redding the hell off the team and bring up Jon Niese and see what he can do. The Mets should also be converting Wilmer Flores into a second baseman and eating Luis Castillo’s contract.

  54. This is hilarious — Redding’s first pitch is belted for a double! He’s picking up right where he left off.
    And let me ask this question:

  55. Dave (72): THat will never happen. The ineptitude in this organization starts at the top…they have inept dumb ownership. They’ll never do a thing.

  56. i blame Omar it was obvious he needed to make some serious bold moves, he chose to be patient and the out come of this season was predictable

  57. gil.

    i agree. wilmer should go to 2b and niese should be up. this team aint going anywhere and he might as well take his lumps now.

  58. rmk – i recently did a post Wilpons have actually spent quite a significant amount of money since taking sole possession

  59. 77 Dave: The Mets aren’t waiting until Houston, brother. They’ll be packing it in by the end of this month.
    I’ll tell ya…I’m giving this team only a couple more weeks of three hours a night of my time. I’m mostly watching now to see if Francouer really can help us next year and to watch Santana’s outings.
    And when Gary Cohen just said “there’s no one in the Minor Leagues to come up to take spots,” whose fault is that?
    Omar Minaya’s.
    His head must roll at the end of this year.

  60. That there is nobody there to bring up is a reflection on the scouting and upper management. Inexcusable. It also means that FA is the only way to get better, and they have too many holes to plug that way. We could be seeing a long stretch of bad baseball, and I don’t mean for the rest of this season.-JD

  61. (87) minaya will be safe unless attendance significantly drops or TV ratings… otherwise they’ll say it was the injuries built in excuse

  62. Ed: I’m not talking about the Wilpons spending money. They run a crappy organization. You think a first class owner would tolerate the poor decisions, lack of accountability, and absolutely piss-poor medical decision making that goes on with this team??

    They need to literally gut the management of this team and rebuild it.

  63. 86 Then Freddie Dub got suckered by Bernie Madoff for $700M. How the hell can anyone lose $700M and still retain a business, much less a life? Must be nice to be growing money trees in the backyard.

  64. This is the worst Mets team I’ve seen play since Art Howe’s sad sacks of 2004.

  65. gil/edfever/john

    the good minor leaguers we have are AA and below. mostly below.

  66. What the hell is Hagan talking about on the radio…he keeps talking like Tim Redding was a Cy Young candidate last year when he talks about how bad he’s been this year. He ever said his signing was “heralded.” Seriously…heralded by whom??? THis guy sucks and his numbers last year sucked too. It’s an example of how dumb this GM is. I mean why the hell is this hack even still on a major league team?

  67. (91) Omar is a good salesmen look how long Phillips pleasant personality… he’s sold them on a five year plan his prospect will be ready in 2012, just stay competitive til then thats his real team.. at least thats his story

  68. How much does anyone wanna bet that the idiot doctors for the Mets diagnose Sheffield with a bruise and say he’s day to day and thus they don’t DL him. Then a week from now he’ll have an MRI and we’ll hear that he has some major tear and is done for the year.

  69. Omar’s pure genius is on display tonight: His worst free agent signing, Tim Redding is pitching, his worst longterm signing, Luis Castillo is on second, and Daniel Murphy, the man he and the manager anointed the next Don Mattingly is at first.

  70. i think it was harry who was shouting a few years ago that omar is a loser.

    i disagreed at the time..

  71. john(97)

    no we wont. perhaps niese. but that is it.

    we already saw fmart and we saw where that got him

  72. rmkmets (99): Actually, I was hoping Sheffield would stay healthy enough to deal him to a contender at the end of the month for a prospect or two. Oh, well.-JD

  73. John (95)
    Santana pitches tomorrow, doesn’t he? What’s unfortunate is that when he pitches, everyone else turns into statues and although he tries to do everything possible in the game, nobody can accomplish that.

  74. 96 rmk: Wayne Hagin used to talk the same nonsense about mediocre pitchers the Colorado Rockies had when he was announcing for them back when they first started. He actually wanted to mount a campaign to have Kevin Ritz (don’t worry, few other people remember him either) be added to the National League All Star pitching staff.
    But calling Tim Redding mediocre would be an insult to all mediocre pitchers.
    I’ll repeat what I’ve said since the moment in December I learned the Minaya was interested in signing him:
    His career stats show he is one of the worst pitchers of all time. And still, Omar signed him.

  75. gil

    redding is not the worst.

    ollie is. redding may be bad, but it is only 2 years at 2 per.

  76. Oh, anyone want some more Omar Minaya brilliance? I read today he’ actually interested in acquiring infielder Julio Lugo, who the Red Sox designated for assignment and would do anything to get rid of. Lugo, in his limited time has made seven errors and has hit one home run.
    Do we really need to keep adding players to the team who can’t catch the ball?

  77. 106 sorry, dave. At least Ollie has put together two outstanding seasons and has won as many as 15 games in one. Redding’s career high for wins before this year is 10 — while pitching for about a half-dozen different organizations.
    Ollie just can’t harness his stuff. But at least he HAS stuff. Redding has been throwing batting practice for years. I doubt if he could get any of us out.

  78. rmkmets/john

    I dont care about sheff. he is not a met. he will not be here next year and the season with this game is officially over.

    if omar has any sense whatsover as a gm, he needs to start selling. if the mets dont sell now they are idiots.

    yes i know they are stupid, but a blind man can see this team is done. turn the page and bring up niese.

    start resting david, dont let beltran or reyes come back this year.

  79. oh yeah.

    dont let santana burn his arm out.

    perhaps they should let bobby start some games and let him get bombed. it will force him to throw his pitches not named 100mph.

  80. 111 Current or former pitcher? ‘Cause I can’t think of anyone else as bad at the moment. At least Anthony Young had talent and hard luck. He wasn’t bad. Redding just sucks like my vacuum cleaner.

  81. I’m so freakin’ sick of it all. This team is frighteningly horrible. Someone, whether it’s Omar, Jerry, HoJo, Warthen or Ray Rameriz, needs to be fired TONIGHT!

  82. 101. Yup… Just look at his work in Canada. He started off with tons of talent that he couldn’t keep for reasons beyond his control but he traded them away for propsects who weren’t and left wiht a system empty at all levels, pretty much what he’s done here with money. He started with two great young kids at SS and 3B and added a great young CFer and then added old, decrepit ballplayers who stunned him yearly by getting hurt. He has been here long enough to have major league ready guys on the farm and their always in a and AA ball. Why is that? He hires a coaching staff that pays no attention to fundamentals as shown by little league plays regularly, it didn’t matter if it was the first string or the AAAA guys…..

    Well, SNY ratings are dropping quickly as all Met fans are readying themselves for the opening of Giant/Jet camps, and you can be sure the rich folk ain’t going to be spending much time in the citi morgue anymore.
    Delcos you’re very right. This could be a bad team for several years. No kids, no pen, no power, no starters.

  83. 111 Hmmm…as far as horrible Mets starting pitchers, how about Randy Tate or Mike “Boom Boom” Bomback from back in the day? How about Mike Torrez in the ’83-’84 seasons? Vintage Pete Falcone from the late-70s? Steve Trachsel circa 2001?

  84. gil

    you are right. ollie has stuff. the problem is he will never be worth his contract and i doubt will ever be a good pitcher.

    redding is cheap. ollie isnt. ollie is a bigger mistake.

    but both are one of the many mistakes this gm has made in his time here.

    either way, both need to be shed from the team.

    at least with ollie someone will take a chance on a guy with talent. at least you can get something for him.

  85. we should start a petition to force the Wilpons to sell the team to a responible and knowledgeable owner committed to build an exciting and entertaining team.

  86. I’d say journalism’s greatest moment came when Dick Gutwillig retired. But that’s just me.

  87. Regarding Castillo: He entered tonight’s game 14th in the NL in OBP and #1 among table setters (i.e., the other 13 ahead of him are all middle-of-the-order power hitters).

    Castillo is not the problem here.

  88. Tiffany (123): You’re absolutely correct. There are fingers to be pointed in a lot of directions, but Castillo has done more than could be hoped for.-JD

  89. After a couple of posts here, I got drowsey and took a nap. My best decision of the day.

  90. For me, the most exciting moments of this game happened a few minutes ago when I drove to the supermarket and bought a tub of shaven parmesan cheese for my wife to use in the risotto she’s making.

  91. 123. If you were here yesterday, you would have seen me defending Looie too. Mets fans just love to find someone to pick on. When they get thier jaws clamped onto a victim its like trying to get a pit bull to let go.

  92. 123 Hey, Tiffany: Know of any other starting MLB second basemen besides Castillo this year who botched the most routine popup in history, directly sabotaging what would’ve been an uplifting, series-opening victory against his team’s hated rivals?

  93. Gil (131): Look at the big picture and how far he’s come from last year. … I sure could go for an Egg McMuffin right about now. Or, a shot of vodka. Not sure which.-JD

  94. JD, I agree with your earlier post about a long dry spell coming. The whole pitching staff has 3 reliable performers. This team has been on a downhill slope since 2006, and its looking like freefall time has arrived. reminds me of 2002. We can only hope Wilpons money problems make him sell this team. He is the worst owner this side of MSG

  95. 129 Ray: There are plenty of other Mets to pick on besides Castillo.
    Castillo just happens to exemplify Omar Minaya’s harebrained way of judging talent and rewarding good play with ludicrous contracts of absurd lengths. But hey, you’re right. Can Castillo really be blamed for taking a deal all of us in this chat room also would’ve taken?
    I mean, wouldn’t it be cool if we had a productive couple of months and convinced an employer to over-reward us with millions of dollars (guaranteed), top-notch health care, accommodations in first class hotels, meal money when traveling on business, four months each year and job security for four years?

  96. 134 JD: Mickey D’s nationwide is selling two Egg McMuffins for $3. But then again, nothing says value like Subway’s $5 Footlong.

  97. Howie is on vacation and Eddie Coleman and Wayne are in the booth. I’m closing this book early on the mercy rule….

    Santana tomorrow at 4 on FOX.

    See you then

  98. 136, that yankee moment was painfull, but Looie has been the only Met to play above expectations this year. So they left Shef out there and now hes hurt? Who bats cleanup now? Stupid, stupid Mets.

  99. I do have one bit of good news.
    Redding was only signed to a one year deal.
    Dave said it was 2 years.

    Less than 2 weeks till the trade deadline
    lets see who Omar can sell.

    I have a few extra white flags if anyone needs one.

  100. 142 (To the tune of “We Are The World”)

    We are the Mets
    We are the inept
    We are the ones who make announcers say,
    “Is this the big leagues?”

    There’s a choice we’re makin’
    We’re waving the white flag
    It’s true we just can’t compete
    This year or next

  101. redding is only signed for this year?


    if i were castillo i would sign too.

    as i said yesterday his bat is above avg with no pop whatsoever. he as good speed and his glove is below avg.

    i would rather have a tag team of young hungry players than him. but his defenders are right. he is not exhibit A as to what is wrong with this team.

    he is just not the solution as i see it. he has had a mostly productive year so far and i would sell high if i were gm.

    it will not get better or stay the same for him.

    there are many holes on this team as we discussed yesterday.

    many positions need to be addressed. perhaps sheff and castillo and putz or wagner if they come back have value to someone who will play in november.

    hopefully we can get something useful from one of these players.

  102. as the game ends we switch to our local entertainment masquerading as news telling us what a great journalist mr. cronkite was.

  103. Dave: If you were another MLB team looking at the inventory your provided (a 40-year-old outfielder with a potent bat but a blown out hamstring; a slap hitting second baseman with a bad contract who drops popups; a damaged goods closer-turned-setup man; a sore armed, tobacco-spittin’ closer who habitually throws his owen teammates under the proverbial bus), would you even give up a case of jockstraps, a gallon of pine tar, a dozen resin bags or two dozen bat donuts for any of them? :)

  104. 144 Actually, Dave, CNN just had a very moving testimomial from its former anchor, Bernard Shaw, talking about how Cronkite nurtured his, Connie Chung’s and Leslie Sathl’s careers…

  105. gil(145)

    you may be right. but desperate times call for desperate measures. and there are a few people here extolling the skills of our 2b. so he cant be that big of a hack.

  106. back to the news such as it is, we have james brown doing his thing in a recording while they show film of various people on the street talking about who knows what.

    journalism at its finest.

    night all.

  107. gil

    perhaps you misread my sarcasm. i was not denigrating walter cronkite.

    i was juxtaposing his high standards with the saps that are foisted on the general public that craves entertainment above all else.

    i do not watch the news. it is almost all junk. i surf the web for news.

    the last election year cycle i was looking for a suitable replacement for tim russert. unfortunately no one can fill his shoes either.

  108. I was fortunate to have completely missed this game. Unfortunately, it appears the Mets did too.

    R.I.P. Mr. Cronkite.

  109. 153 oh no, dave. I knew you weren’t denigrating cronkite. as a practitioner of journalism — or the sad shell of its former self, I agree with you.