METS CHAT ROOM: Game #78; not excited.

OK … the Mets won yesterday at Milwaukee. So what? I’m not going to get excited about one win after a month of playing terribly.

Tim Redding (1-3, 6.35 ERA) has given up five homers in the last 17 2/3 innings pitched.

Luis Castillo, 2B
Alex Cora, SS
Dave Wright, 3B
Gary Sheffield, RF
Fernando Tatis, LF
Ryan Church, CF
Nick Evans, 1B
Omir Santos, C
Tim Redding, RP

248 thoughts on “METS CHAT ROOM: Game #78; not excited.

  1. any win is exciting right now for me..with the team beat up, struggling to score, etc…ill take it

    only 2 back, could be so much worse

    church in CF i like, but id rather murphy at 1st to try to get him going..but lefty starter for pitt so u know jerry is gonna sit him

  2. I am tired of the righty lefty crap. could you imagine sitting Keith because of what arm he used?

    I will take all the wins we can get..

  3. gotta love the day games when at work. thank you pitch by pitch.

  4. Interesting notes…
    1. The Mets signed the left-handed pitching son of former MLB right-handed pitcher, Uegeth Urbina, Juan Urbina.
    2. The pitcher some scouts believe is the world’s top lefty pitching prospect, Aroldis Chapman, has defected from Cuba. Wonder if the Mets should make a play for him.
    3. John Franco was recently quoted as saying that “something has ben missing from the Mets the last two years…leadership.” Franco added that he approached David Wright about taking on that role, but that he was hesitant, because of the presence of more experienced and accomplished players such as Carlos Beltran and Carlos Delgado. Question is: Who’s out there on another team who’s an everyday player and possibly available for the Mets to investigate acquiring who could provide that missing ingredient? Some thought Orlando Hudson would be the answer. Any others?

  5. Keith and ronnie both said it numerous times and that it should be wright. However Wright is being respectful to the older veterans. Not wanting to offend. but since none of them are stepping up he should just do it.

  6. (5) Steve C: Castillo’s OBP is .369. I see no reason why he shouldn’t bat leadoff over Cora. They’re pretty much both interchangeable anyway.

  7. ok where’s my pitch by pitch. i cannot believe it takes this long to see what wright has done.

  8. (8) from what i have seen Cora has been more consistent and has had really good at bats.

  9. 7 I thought it was too bad the Mets didn’t make a play for Nyjer Morgan before he was traded to the Nats. He’s a good leadoff hitter (especially in Reyes’s absence) is excellent defensively and is a good role player. I’d have swapped Jeremy Reed or maybe a low-level prospect for him.
    On the leadership front, though, you can’t force someone to be a leader if it doesn’t suit him. I’m fine with David being the type of person he is and won’t take anything away from him if he’s not that guy. But it may be that the Mets need to acquire “that guy.” Hernandez, Ray Knight and Gary Carter were “those guys,” back in the ’80s.
    Not sure who would qualify now.

  10. ok did something happen? because pitch by pitch is not updating..

  11. Steve they are in a rain delay..or so the MLB pitch by pitch says. Gil: The Mets would have to find it from someone in a position they need to fill, if they can cut Castillo next year than Hudson would be a good fit. Otherwise, you have to look to the OF or 1b. Who is out there? I have no idea. Maybe Jason Bay? Did he agree to a new deal with the Sox yet?

  12. sky opened up, watching on and gary say rain should stop soon according to radar.

  13. id like to see omar go out and get a couple of off the scrap heap type players to throw out there and see if you could find this yrs tatis…murphy, evans, tatis are not giving production

  14. 18 Bay hasn’t yet agreed to an extension with the Red Sox. Don’t know who his agent is. If it’s Scott Boras, Bay will likely test the market.
    Here’s a link to some 2010 free agents (though not 100% fully updated, as ramon castro is still listed as a Met):
    As you’ll see, not a whole lot out there.
    Plus, we have to ask, if the Dodgers get deep into post-season or win the World Series, why would Hudson want to leave if the Dodgers would want him back?

  15. a bad GM would let him go. Like in 87-88. every guy that helped us win 86. was sold for top dollar. until we had nothing.. we should have had 2 in a row easy and maybe 3… BUT NO!!!! the mets franchise needed to get the cash..

  16. wasnt that good ole steve philips? the one on espn. god they are terrible commentators and are not even handed at all.

    the radio guys are more fair than ESPN. they hate the mets,,

  17. (21) Gil: Don’t know about Hudson…maybe he could parlay his season into a contract that the Dodgers wouldn’t want to pay. Looking at the list ( has a pretty substantial list,) I think Bay is probably the cream of the offensive players young enough and healthy enough to make a difference. I also don’t know much about how much of difference these so-called “leadership skills,” have on a ball club. Why across town we have the greatest leader of baseball players in the whole free world and his team hasn’t won a World Series in nine years.

  18. (22) Steve C: You’re really going to have to clarify your point. Who exactly did the Mets “sell off?” The only horrible trade IMO that was made was the Dykstra one and maybe not resigining Ray Knight. But other than that, the Mets didn’t exactly dismantle their teams of the late 80’s.

  19. those werent big? and then the following year didnt they let mookie go in like 88 or 89? i remember losing a lot more.. but then again it was 20 years ago.. but i am sure we lost more than 2 key players.

  20. 24 Excellent point about Jeter, Steve. Jeter’s one guy that I boo in person, but purely out of respect. He is one of the smartest players I’ve ever watched in addition to being one of the best.
    As for Bay, that imbecile Steve Phillips dealt him when he was a Mets prospect…in ’02 for reliever Steve Reed.
    That deal sure worked out for us, huh?

  21. 27- thats what i am saying we had more than a decade of hell thanx to phillips.

  22. 26 Mookie was foolishly dealt away to Toronto in ’89 for LH reliever Jeff Musselman.
    That wasn’t nearly as dumb as the deal in which Dykstra and McDowell were dealt for Juan Samuel.
    To be fair on Ray Knight, though, HoJo had a 30-30 year in ’87 and he wouldn’t have had all that playing time if Knight were around. But in principle, Knight should’ve been re-signed, after being named WS MVP.
    But the crazy thing is, Kevin Mitchell was traded because management feared he’d be a bad influence on Gooden and Strawberry. But what management must not have known was that Gooden and Strawberry were already deep into coke, booze and even domestic violence, regardless of Mitchell’s presence.

  23. (27)Gil: LOL…actually Reed did pitch pretty well for the Mets that year. (26) Steve C: I don’t know if the Knight deal killed them, but his replacement went on to be one of the greatest hitting 3bman the Mets ever had and they were back in the playoffs in 1988. As far as Mookie goes, he was finished. The rest of the key players just got old (Keith and Gary)

  24. Kevin Mitchell was our supreme utility player.

    So as I said. from 87-89 we dealt our key winning players. we should have held on to all the oens that helped make that win so stellar

  25. (27) Steve Phillips: Last GM to lead the Mets to a World Series. Last GM to lead the Mets to back to back playoff appearances. Yeah, he traded Appier for Mo Vaughn…big freakin deal. Overall he did a fine job as the Mets GM and doesn’t get nearly the amount of credit he should.

  26. 32-until they saw that money would be quicker than a win and started selling.
    we went over a decade without good players. we finally had a winning team and the dollar signs in phillips and doubledays eyes were huge.
    remember no losing money by throwing the balls to the fans…

  27. 32 Reed may have pitched well, but it was for a crap team.
    Phillips couldn’t decide if the Mets should’ve been buyers or sellers that year so, in his own inimitable way, he did both — “selling” Shawn Estes to the Reds for Pedro Feliciano and OF Raul Gonzalez, then “buying” Steve Reed, then “selling” Jay Payton to Colorado.

  28. (33) Steve: Yes, Mitch was…but he was traded for the guy who should have probably been the NL MVP in 1988. At the time the trade was made, no one cried..believe me. We only did when he became a feared power hitter but who knows..steroids anyone? I actually think the biggest mistake that the Mets ever made back then was not resigning Straw. Who knows if things for him and the Mets would have been different in the lean years from 91 thru 97

  29. 39- i was angry they sold our MVP. and as i watched the loyalty to the winning mets get sold for dollars. it angered me more.. the mets were a revolving doori after 1990; I coudnt keep track of all the players it got so ridiculous.

  30. C, you can beg to differ all you want. But he did put together those teams and for that you have to credit him. Besides the Bay trade, did he really make an awful trade that actually cost the team? (ok..maybe the Izzy deal, but he might never have been converted to a reliever with the Mets)

  31. SteveC. (38) Howie and Wayne say that it looks as though the rain is really over, but who knows for sure? Anyway we have a winning record for this month, right now :)

  32. 34 I also beg to differ.
    GMs don’t “lead” teams to anything. They assemble teams.
    Mike Piazza fell into Phillips’s lap.
    Phillips traded away Melvin Mora for Mike Bordick, who did absolutely nothing after homering in his first Mets AB.
    After 2000, Phillips made moves that took the team backward and eventually spiraling into an abyss. His housecleaning for 2002 amounted to compiling a Rotisserie League team.

  33. handed on a silver platter. was he swinging for the fences? if so thats why. should have gone for the clean hit.

  34. getting the lead would have been big, lets hope redding has something today

  35. 46. Oh I get it, GM’s don’t get credit when they assemble a good team, they only get the blame when the team goes sour. I guess that is true right now in Omar’s case. If you want to look at it that way, you can. Anyway, I give Phillips plenty of credit for obtaining the team that helped get the Mets to the best amount of success us Met fans have seen in over 10 years.

  36. thanx jim. pitch by pitch showed that ball in a sweet spot for a nice line drive single/double.

  37. 55- not at all,. In the beginning i gave Omar great praise for many of his moves. Ask JD. up until recently. its as if he has a different motive now. His ideals changed or something…

  38. why is sheffield in? dont tell me ist a right/lefty thing. we had great coverage in the field yesterday.

  39. 42 bad Steve Phillips moves…
    1. Melvin Mora for Mike Bordick
    2. Tsuyoshi Shinjo and Desi Relaford for Sean Estes
    3. Signing Steve Trachsel as a free agent
    4. Jason Bay for Steve Reed
    5. Acquiring Roberto Alomar
    6. Re-acquiring Jeromy Burnitz
    7. Signing Satoru Komiyama as a free agent
    8. Not breaking the bank to re-sign John Olerud after the ’99 season.

  40. 58…then why aren’t you giving Phillips his credit for assembling the team in the late 90’s?

  41. 65- what team? u mean the revolving door. He left ordonez at short for way too long. yeah glod glove with .132 avg. then his glove finally super soured. and piazza was burnt after carrying the team for how long? and a picther gets MVP what?!

  42. SteveC (58) What changed was the expense of Citi Field and the US economy going in the tank.

  43. 68- in the beginning when Omar made all the stellar aquirements i commented on how is this what its like havign a real GM. as oposed to phillips. Steve-O seems we only give the GM bad press.
    I just despise phillips he was terrible.

  44. well you cant defend phillips too much because he was fired so obviously he wasnt all that great..the roster he put together in ’99 worked out somehow even without a lot of talent but they got the chemistry right and bobby v managed his butt off..
    the jury is out on omar but as of now he has failed…now lets get a win today

  45. 62. I’ll give you 1, 4 and 8. The rest are riddiculous. What did the loss of Shinjo mean? Trachsel won 65 games in 5 seasons for the team. Everyone in the baseball world praised the Alomar deal and the Mets gave up squat to get him. Resginig Burnitz? Does it really matter? Komiyama??? LOLOLOL. Who the hell cares about that dude anyway. That like caring about the siging of Koo. And you know what, i’ll even go back and not give you #1 anymore. The Mets were forced to make the trade as Mora was an awful SS and never showed signs of turning out to be the player he ended up being. This would be of an example of being forced into making a know the kinda trade you would want to make to “blow up the team.”

  46. i have never been a huge fan of evans…he seems to have some pop but he doesnt loook all that good to me

  47. 55 58 Steves: GMs should get credit not only for assembling teams, but also maintaining them as well.
    That’s what Phillips failed to do. It is what Omar Minaya has struggled to do.
    That’s why Frank Cashen is the best GM in Mets history, because he accomplished four key things:
    1. He built the best farm system in all of baseball, through a crack scouting department
    2. He skillfully added established star talent from other clubs and via free agency to add to the young nucleus
    3. Under his architecture, the Mets had the best cumulative record for six seasons, from 1984-1990
    4. He also reacquired the franchise’s three most popular players — Rusty Staub, Dave Kingman and Tom Seaver — who had been exiled by previous regimes, which kept fan interest until the Mets truly blossomed as a contender in 1984.

  48. not working the count at all, letting maholm just breeze thru this inning

  49. (75) Jim: Of course you can defend Phillips plenty. He was the GM for like 8 years. Thats a long long time. And yes…Bobby V was as big of a reason as well.

  50. why isnt chneider out there catching? he was key yesterday. oh yeah this is how manuel rewards good players.

  51. you guys should meet in the middle on your pts. he had some good yrs, had some awful yrs, average GM at best..and now the way he drills the mets on national tv, i have a hard time defending him

  52. 81 good ?..he is jerrys boy and jerry dont need no stinkin stats, he goes by “feel”…stupid

  53. 83- u got that right,. i hate watching him on ESPN very unfair announcing.. never gives mets any praise at all.
    Gary,Ron,Keith are very fair to a fault almost. They are fair to both teams. and never bad mouth the other team ever..

  54. gee right at sheffield. think they have his number? yeah jerry leave him out there the rest of the game. *sigh*

  55. Annie: You asked yesterday what I would do to help the team now. Sorry, I didn’t see the comment until later…I responded on yesterday’s thread as follows:

    There isn’t a thing that can be done right now or should be done. You can’t trade players on the DL and with team being short of top prospects to trade, I wouldn’t trade Parnell, Niese, FMart, Flores, Meija for any rent a player. That’s the problem with the farm system, their stocked at the upper levels with marginal prospects like Evans and Murphy. They don’t have much minor league depth.

  56. The problem with santos is .. does he go out to the pitcher enough to calm him down?

  57. awful pitching by redding…what a joke
    3-2 pitch i would have layed off..not even close

  58. a bloody walk. :-( almost came back though.. too bad it wasnt a hand grenade

  59. 76 The kinds of deals “everyone in baseball praises” are exactly the ones to be leery of. If you remember, the Mets gave up virtually nothing to get Alomar — Matt Lawton and Alex Escobar, a washout prospect.
    GMs have to know better than to grab a “star” player who’s being given away for nothing. They have to have a natural skepticism that asks “what’s the catch?”
    Luckily for the Mets, the ONLY deal in their history that was a true steal was Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey for Keith Hernandez.
    I stand by my criticisms of Steve Phillips deals.
    Phillips saw Mo Vaughn taking indoor BP in Connecticut before trading for him and ignored the fact that Vaughn weighed almost 300 pounds at the time. Talk about the proverbial elephant in the room!
    Trachsel was so putrid to start the season after Phillips signed him, he was demoted to AAA. And Trachsel may have won his share of games, but he benefitted from a potent Mets offense in ’06.

  60. what a fing joke…then chruch has him dead to rights at 3rd and an awful throw

  61. 92 jim: are you really surprised by Redding’s “awful pitching”?
    He hasn’t won only 35 games by accident. Too bad Omar couldn’t have seen that.

  62. someone who is watching please tell me Omir has gone out to calm him down.

  63. alright im done with this..tim redding, this should be your last start of the yr

  64. yay he can at least Strike out the pitcher. i would leave if he couldnt do that..

  65. what the hell kind of catche is Omir not going to the mound? too young maybe?

  66. mets are gonna get blown out today and unless redding finds a weird double play ball

  67. redding has nothing. 0 control, 0 stuff…this could be his last start…maybe the 39 million dollar man will actually contribute to this team

  68. (106) Steve C: Al Leiter, Dennis Cook, Rickey Henderson, John Olerud, Turk Wendell…those were all awful deals?

  69. Santos needs to get teh hell out there and have a fricken plan. this is a catcher’s job! calm the pitcher and come up with a clue.

  70. (116) If Ollie has a big start tomorrow I would expect him to replace Redding in the rotation.

  71. getting rid of Turk absolutely.
    and i despised Leiter. Bobby V loved him i couldnt stand him. my only met game of the year he gives up 6 to the braves in teh first effing inning..

  72. 104 Piazza fell into Phillips’s lap, JD.
    The Dodgers wanted to give him up and the Marlins were just holding onto him until they could move him.

  73. its not the catchers fault when the pitcher has legit 0 out there..not sure if any1 else is able to see the game but redding is just grooving down the middle or cant find the plate…im not kidding, id get some1 up in the pen..mets need to answer with at leas a minirally here with top of lineup since the only people i have confidence in are the top 4 hitters

  74. JD- yeah why get rid of the good offense from yesterday. its a right/lefty day dont you know. this is a reward for good play.
    no consistency with men on the field. this is little league. everyone gets a turn playing.

  75. 128- its the catchers job to go out there after so many bad pitches especially when the pitcher looks rocked.

  76. atta boy louie…i miss feeling like someone could hit a homerun, it seems we never ever hit them anymore

  77. I’ve said this at least 100 times:
    Tim Redding has no business in the Major Leagues. I said that in December the moment Omar even considered signing the guy.
    Redding must have some lurid blackmail photos of Minaya somewhere for the Mets to have signed him.

  78. you have said that gil…looks like u r right..he has shown flashes but overall has ogtten smoked

  79. Have enjoyed reading the comments today. Haven’t enjoyed the game quite as much. Gotta go out now… hope the Mets don’t fall farther behind and can dredge up 4 runs somewhere.

  80. Steve the Original (90) I agree with you -which I why I don’t understand all the wanna-be managers here making ‘deals’ as though they knew how to change the team. What we need to do – as fans, not officials – is simply support the guys that are now playing. Which is actually what I try to do – or as your Mom once told you – if you can’t say anything nice about someone, don’t say anything. :)

  81. 144- oh come now Annie. this coming from the gal that always has a yankee story to tell 😉

    Listen I am a die hard met fan through and through i never ever boo my team ever!
    i am allowed to not like the GM or a player but i will never boo a plaer even when i hate him. so please dont even go there with support of the team.

  82. alright fellas…im outta here…could get real ugly today. have a good one…and lets hope a series with the phils brings the best out of this MASH squad..tough with all thse injuries

  83. 3 innings. first pitch has been extra bases each time. 2 doubles now a triple. *sigh*

  84. 135 jim: That’s precisely Omar’s greatest weakness as a GM. His heart rules his mond when it comes to most of his acquisitions.
    Tim Redding, at best, is a reclamation project. Minaya must’ve somehow thought that miraculously Redding could be a winner on a team that would supply him with some offense.
    That’s the same thinking that concocts meshuga ideas like Moises Alou magically discovering the fountain of youth; Luis Castillo reverting to being the Gold Glove, base-setaling impact player he was in Florida; Fernando Tatis continuing his comeback story; Daniel Murphy becoming the next Don Mattingly; Ryan Church blossoming into superstardom; Oliver Perez maturing into Cy Young material.
    Minaya would be best as the GM of a fantasy team, because he has all these wild-eyed fantasies of the players he acquires going on to become Hall of Famers.

  85. sorry: I should’ve said Omar’s heart rules his “mind,” not “mond.”

  86. The Phillies should be running away with this considering how the Mets are playing. Redding needs to stay in there to save the pen. It will be needed this weekend.-JD

  87. 146- i think lineup consistency would help. keep the players in that are doing well and let them get comfortable at the position they find themselves in instead of shifting everyday. i feel like Manuel wants o team of Kevin Mitchells. aint happening.. last player to be close was whats his name. they had him pitch,, dammit i liked him too.


  88. I wonder if I can name three Pirates. Let’s see: there are two Yankee flops in the rotation in Karstens and Ohlendorf. There is ah er let me Frank Taveras still there?

    Call to the bullpen. Maybe the end of the Tim Redding era with his 4 digit era. Back to the Gnats, Tim.

  89. WOW. thats it for erdding. I guess they called in the medics. to turniquette the bleeding.

  90. even though we were losing. it would have been good to leave him in and take his lumps.

  91. Annie: If fans didn’t clamor for changes (as many of us do) and were content year after year to spend good, hard-earned money supporting mediocre or bad product, management likely wouldn’t give a crap about the team it puts on the field, as was the case with Mets management from 1973 until 1979.
    What changed?
    Fans stopped coming to Shea and M. Donald Grant was forced to sell the team to an ownership group that ideed listened to the fans’ demand to improve the club and saw how putting a competitive team on the field would be a financial boon.
    I love the Mets, but does that mean I should be content with management assembling a mediocre ballclub?
    Hell no.
    Plus, Annie, being an armchair manager and GM is half the fun of being a fan, hence the impact of Fantasy Leagues.
    What fan wouldn’t want to fantasize about being in charge of his or her favorite ballclub?

  92. Hi Dan (156) – So, did you get new lenses?

    (I just made a quick trip to the Library – due to the holiday they will be closed for three days starting tomorrow – need to have something to read during these rain delays)

  93. 156 Dan: I lived in Savannah last year and went to a few Sand Gnats games. Believe me, I saw at least three pitchers there better than Redding.

  94. More singles! keep it going. rock his world,. now do the bugs bunny conga line around the bases.

  95. Gil (162)

    “Plus, Annie, being an armchair manager and GM is half the fun of being a fan, hence the impact of Fantasy Leagues.
    What fan wouldn’t want to fantasize about being in charge of his or her favorite ballclub?”

    Me – I’d want to be the pitcher.

  96. not yet, Annie. My eyes haven’t changed much which is good.

    I guess there aren’t any ballparks with huge foul territories like Oakland and Atlanta ever had as dual purpose stadia have faded away.

  97. 170 Annie: I’d take your pitching. Couldn’t be any worse than Tim Redding’s.

  98. And the balloon continues to burst on Omir Santos. But he’s still doing a helluva lot better than Castro in Chicago.

  99. Followed by an ending inning double play by Castillo which we will see for another 2 1/2 years.

  100. Murphy is a good pinch hitter because he’s only looking for one pitch. He’s having problems as a regular because he’s losing the mental cat-and-mouse game during his multiple ABs.

  101. It’s hard to over-emphasize how bad Tatis, Church and Murphy have been this year. Suffice to say, you can’t have two corner OFs and a 1B all slugging under .400.

  102. Church hasnt been the same since his multple injuries but he’s bloody trying.
    Tatis has no excuse. Murphy is also doing the best he can and he doesnt need to slug to be at first, jus have a great glove. Keith wasnt a slugger

  103. its almost time to head home i think.. at least in the car i can listen to the game

  104. Hernandez slugged .436 for his career, during an era when the league average was .390.

  105. I think Church will be traded. My psychic impression is Church, Parnell and Niese for a slugger.

  106. tie game…keep going boys..come on!

    off to work..come on boys, way to fight…keep fighting and score some more runs!

  107. well look at that as i look at the socring plays. 3 singles.. 😉
    as i live and breathe

  108. Thank goodness for singles. I don’t know how the Mets could ever win another game this year without em! :-)

  109. 201 Tiffany: Way too early to give up on Parnell. Church? Yes. Niese? Maybe.
    But would you really trade young players just for a shot this year?
    Realistically, do you think the Mets — even in the unlikely events of them either overtaking the Phillies or beating out the Marlins, Giants, Cardinals and Cubs for a Wild Card spot — would advance far in the playoffs?

  110. Another question, Tiffany: Why would any other team be terribly attracted to Church? He’s an everyday player with 2 homers and about 20 RBIs in July and career-wise at the plate, he hasn’t been anything special, except for the first-half he put together last year.

  111. Church is — theoretically, at least — an established big-league hitter with pop who is financially controllable for the next 2-3 years. Someone like Billy Beane might jump at him.

    With Perez and Johan signed to long-term deals, there’s no need for a third lefty starter in Niese.

    And Parnell right now is a one-pitch pitcher. I suspect Brad Holt at AA will eclipse on the short-term org chart, before actually becoming a starter himself.

  112. As for whether they could advance in the playoffs, anything is possible in a short series. But, if you look at the stats, Delgado, Beltran and Wright are all producing at serious clips; if you get those stars aligned for one season, you have to make the most of it.

  113. 210 Tiffany: Two home runs since the beginning of the season is “pop”?
    Why would Billy Beane or any other GM jump at Church when they already have players on their rosters with better numbers than 2 HR and 19 RBI?
    Yes, Church is above-average defensively, but at his best, he’s a complimentary player.
    On his own, I doubt the Mets would get much, except a couple of low-level second tier prospects for him.

  114. 211 That’s a helluva lot of “ifs.”
    *If Delgado comes back this year
    *If Delgado is productive when he comes back this year
    *If Reyes comes back this year
    *If Reyes can function at 100% if he comes back this year
    *If Beltran doesn’t have a setback with his kneee and won’t require season-ending surgery
    *If Beltran returns and is productive
    Then, in a short series — in which the Mets would certainly be overmatched in starting pitching — the Mets might win
    *If Johan Santana finds his form
    *If Mike Pelfrey can step up and be a solid No.2 starter
    *If the defense could play well behind their pitchers
    *If the team doesn’t make mental errors
    *If the middle relief could hold up
    *If the team could score runs for the starters

  115. Did you miss the “theoretically, at least” qualifier? Church is having a miserable season; to be sure, if he were performing up to his capabilities, I wouldn’t be suggesting a trade. I’m not sure what you mean by “complementary” — I see a healthy, productive Church as a #5 or #6 hitter in many lineups.

    As for their lineup, the A’s don’t currently have a regular slugging over .439.

  116. Let’s eliminate the “ifs” and concentrate on sure things, then. You go first.

  117. 214: What would you want from the A’s that they would accept Church for?
    Not Matt Holliday. They’d want Fernando Martinez and another prospect.
    If Holliday’s not tearing it up playing in a fairly big park like Network Associates Coliseum, how do you think he’d fare in the Grand Canyon — er, Citi Field?
    By a “complementary” player, I mean someone who is a less important cog in the wheel, like Xavier Nady was on the ’06 team, though you can make the case that Nady is a superior hitter than Church.
    But Church doesn’t have much trade value right now. He has had a golden opportunity batting in the 4 dn 5 slots with the big guns out and he hasn’t exactly set the world on fire. He had the terrible misfortune of getting a serious injury in the middle of what was on track to be his breakout year.

  118. I’m saying Holliday because he’s someone who’s likely to be traded and whose acquisition might provide a psychological lift to this team.

    I don’t think Oakland will get much for Holliday because his current season largely matches his career numbers outside of Coors. In fact, his career numbers on the road aren’t all that different from the type of production expected from Church (.350 OBP and .450 SLG). The difference, of course, is that Holliday is actually approaching those numbers this year, while Church is mysteriously languishing. But, from Billy Beane’s standpoint, if righted, Church could feasibly provide the same .350/.450 production at a fraction of the cost and for the next 2-3 years under his financial control. Church, Niese and Parnell.

    Marvin? Gaye, of course.

  119. 219 If Holliday’s not having such a great season and isn’t much of an improvement over Church, then why take on Holliday’s contract by trading for him?
    Church’s numbers aren’t a mystery, either. His career numbers suggest he’s not that great a hitter.
    By the way, which Marvin Gaye song were you making a reference to about taxes, death and trouble?

  120. I disagree re Holliday: He is having a typical season. His numbers for Oakland are largely in line with what his career road numbers are.

    Why take on Holliday’s contract? Because he actually is hitting around .350/450. Church isn’t.

    Statistically, there is virtually no difference between Church’s career numbers and what Holliday has done outside of Coors Field. They are largely identical.

    “Trouble Man” has the line, “There’s only three things that’s for sure: Taxes, death and trouble.”

  121. 221 Where’s Matt Holliday batting .350 — in his dreams? He’s hitting .275 with 8 homers and 40 RBIs.
    And you want to bring him in to play in a park where every home team player is struggling to hit homers?
    Also, you forget another thing:
    Many contending teams with much better farm systems have much better packages to offer for someone like Holliday than the Mets.
    The Mets don’t have depth in pitching to dangle like the Marlins or Giants, or prospects like the Phillies, Cardinals or Cubs, the Mets chief competitors for a playoff spot.

  122. .350 is his on-base percentage, not his batting average. OBP is a better indicator of performance than batting average.

    If Church were hitting .350/.450, the Mets would have no reason to even look at Holliday. As such, Holliday’s performance this year would be a welcome addition.

    I don’t have to go through what every potential playoff could possibly offer, but I do know that Mark DeRosa, who is arguably having a better year than Holliday, was had for a young set-up man not very different than Parnell; what’s more, rumors about Nick Johnson have centered around Parnell. As such, I think if you couple Parnell with Niese, you have the makings of an enticing package. Church might not be attractive to the Orioles, but I’m guessing he would be to Billy Beane.

  123. 233 Tiffany, I don’t see how the words “Parnell,” “Niese” and “enticing” can be used in the same sentence, much less motivate another team to trade for them.
    It would take a lot more than Holliday to turn the Mets around and Mark De Rosa is certainly not any team’s savior — he’s a super-utility guy at best.

  124. Another thing about Parnell is that he’s not as young as everyone seems to think. He’s 24, going to turn 25 later this season.

  125. You mean there’s nothing enticing about a 24-yr-old reliever who throws 100 mph? If that’s the case, why are the Nationals reportedly asking for him during discussions about Nick Johnson?

    There’s nothing enticing about a 22-yr-old lefty with an outstanding curve, above-average fastball and who has already provided glimpses of his ability in the bigs by the age of 21? Niese has a change-up; once he masters it, he’s likely to become a successful big-league starter. If you’d like, you can give me a list of other 22-yr-old lefties with three-pitch repertoires who might be on the market this July.

    As for DeRosa, he’s been a starter the last four seasons. His production during this time has largely been in line with that of Jose Reyes. Savior? Maybe not. But he’s definitely more than a super-utility guy.

  126. Shouldn’t a good catcher/1B (like Hernandez) go to the mound to calm K Rod?

  127. Castillo is just as surprised as I am that he caught that line drive for the third out. On to extra innings.

  128. I can’t believe I went out and came back and this game is still going on.

    I can’t believe the Mets actually scored 8 runs and then lost the lead.

    I can’t believe the two Mets who were considered their biggest strengths — Santana and Rodriguez — have been the ones struggling the most lately.

    I can’t believe the Mets just scored the go-ahead run and now K-Rod is going to have another opportunity to blow the save.

    I can’t believe we were looking at yet another superlative we’d have to come up with to describe “most devastating loss of the year” — and still could be, if K-Rod doesn’t get the win here.

  129. Howie has put this game ‘in the books’. All you need to know is that the Mets won in a rain-delayed and OT game.

    Tomorrow night – The Phillies – at their place.

    See you then.

  130. I went out, too and just came back after making a great trade: A loaf of bread, eight eggs and two cans of tuna for 2 one-liter bottles of soda.
    Long-term and health-wise it doesn’t make sense, but the immediate sugar rush of the soda fills the short term need.
    Hmmm…kinda like the Mets mortgaging future prospects now for a rent-a-player…

  131. Bottom line: what could have been the latest in a long line of “the most devastating loss of the season” instead goes in the books as the Mets’ biggest comeback of the year. And Church is back to his stride, playing every day.

    On to Philadelphia.

  132. Tiffany, that is the strangest question I’ve seen. But honestly, I couldn’t tell you.

  133. Seriously, he’s straining the buttons on his blazer during the post-game show. Aren’t they paying him enough money to wear clothes that fit when he’s on TV?

  134. Tiffany, maybe they’re paying him so much that he’s gaining weight faster than he can get new clothes?