METS CHAT ROOM: Game #74; trying to salvage a lost weekend.



Sorry about last night. Computer access was down. Trying it again.

Well, so much for the good feelings generated the beating the Cardinals. The Yankees have had their way this weekend with the Mets, who only have four hits in the two games. With the way Chien Ming Wang has been pitching for the Yankees, one would hope they would get at least that many tonight. Then again, four hits tonight won’t cut it either.

Livan Hernandez (5-2, 4.05 ERA) starts tonight for the Mets, but despite his good pitching they’ve lost four of his past five starts, In his last ten start, he is 4-1 with a 3.17 ERA, averaging over 6 innings in each game.

If he can’t do it tonight, the Mets will drop to .500, not the way they want to start their next trip.

Ryan Church isn’t feeling well and won’t play tonight. Here’s the patchwork line-up:

Daniel Murphy, 1B
Alex Cora, SS
David Wright, 3B
Gary Sheffield, LF
Fernando Tatis, RF
Fernando Martinez, CF
Brian Schneider, C
Luis Castillo, 2B
Livan Hernandez, RP

169 thoughts on “METS CHAT ROOM: Game #74; trying to salvage a lost weekend.

  1. At least YOU’RE back! After yesterday I was afraid you and the entire blog group was on the DL too.

  2. I’m not planning on paying too much attention to the game. But I’m hoping that, since pretty much everybody expects the Mets to get swept, they’ll pull one out.

  3. How desperate — and meshuga — is Jerry Manuel that he has to bat daniel Murphy in the leadoff spot?

  4. You know, I wonder…do we have a Black Sox situation here? Have the Mets been made an offer they can’t refuse to throw this series, or what? I haven’t seen so much ineptitude in one weekend of baseball in a LONG time.

  5. 11 No, just since Friday.
    Murphy, I’m convinced, will never be more than a mediocre player who belongs in the A.L.
    I keep on saying, the Mets should’ve traded him last winter, but instead, they prematurely handed him the LF job.
    Now, he sucks at two different positions.

  6. Hi everybody- I had a great sports day today – a friend had passes to the Traveler’s Championship at River Highlands in Cromwell. It was a great day – weather good, food good, golf good – we were there from 1-5. It’s only 20 minutes from here.
    Now, if the Mets can give me a good evening…

  7. Jeff M (2) I’m not on the DL !!!! Sang the morning service at Church today and walked the TPC course all afternoon!!

  8. 16 Annie, how ’bout them giving me this: a refund on my DirecTV Extra Innings package and my subscription and a refund for the ticket I bought to see them play the Marlins, plus the money I spent on gas to drive all the way to Miami to see Daniel Murphy drop a fly ball that cost Johan Santana and the team a win?

  9. Gil (18) Not sure they’ll give you all that…they are on a budget, I believe….

  10. 19 They owe ALL of us.
    We’re being charged Major League prices to watch a team that has the fundamental abilities of a AA team, at best.

  11. Gil,
    I posted on this blog a months ago that Murphy is a mediocre player. Typical Mets organization. They make there prospects sound great when in reality they are not that good. I have already come to the conclusion that this team is a fourth place with all the injuries. This team will be hard to watch.

  12. 21 tomg: They already are hard to watch and you’re 100% right about Murphy. Same scouts who touted Murphy are likely the same ones who ignored all the red flags surrounding J.J. Putz’s elbow.
    I mean, didn’t they notice the stenciled red letters that were on the box containing Putz that read “DAMAGED GOODS”?

  13. 22 Gil,
    I’ve said it on this blog many times. Omar and his people have to go but than in reality, the wilpons need to sell the mets to owners who have a clue who to hire but unfortunately we are stuck with the wilpons but not minya and his cronies.

  14. I went to the new mets ballpark a few weeks ago against the Phillies and I couldn’t believe what I saw in the new ballpark. I thought the brooklyn dodgers were back and playing in the major leagues, what a joke. There wasn’t anything that showed any met history in the new park. the wilpons are a joke.

  15. It’s not going to get any easier this week. Brewers are good. They obviously can’t win in Pittsburgh and the Phillies next weekend. Ouch.-JD

  16. 23 preach on, tomg! I’m with ya 100%. That overprivileged moron Jeff Wilpon already designed Citi Field to be too damn cavernous, Omar Minaya sandbagged the team with ridiculous contracts to Luis Castillo, Tim Redding and Oliver Perez and traded for two other guys who’ve proven to be mediocre in Brian Schneider and Ryan Church, who had no idea how to win, because they came from a lousy franchise like the Nationals.
    The Mets have become a joke and it angers me that the Yankees and their fans can freely laugh at the Mets’ foibles.

  17. tomg (24): That’s the one thing that bothers me about Citi Field. Jackie Robinson isn’t a part of Mets history. Just a PC gesture. Go to Fenway, Yankee Stadium, Dodger Stadium, Detroit, Wrigley, Cleveland … most any other place and you know who plays there. Citi Field is so sterile. There’s no excuse for not having a Mets museum.-JD

  18. (25) yea and the phillies are done playing the AL so that means the phillies will start winning again and pull away from the rest of the national league east. It’s amazing, the mets went to the league championship in 2006 and since than this team has gone backwards and it doesn’t look good for the future either. There minor league system is a joke.

  19. Gil (26): Right on what you are saying, but I would still have done the Milledge trade. Get rid of an attitude to get two starters. Yes, yes, I know, they aren’t that good, but they are starters nonetheless.-JD

  20. (27) I hear ya John. I am so down on this franchise you have no idea. I’ve been a met fan since 1967 and I am finding it hard to remain a fan. That is why my second favorite team now is the Red Sox. That organization has a clue, plus I hate the yankees and there fans.

  21. 24 27 I have to disagree about the Jackie Robinson tribute being PC.
    I went to Citi for a couple of games in May and it’s a great way to show something about baseball that transcends the sport.
    C’mon, the Ed Kranepool Rotunda?
    But I think it would’ve been nice to also have a Mets museum and giving props to Bill Shea, Joan Payson and Willie Mays, too.
    Maybe the Jackie tribute could’ve been incorporated into a whole display about the history of National League baseball in New York before the Mets, so guys like Duke Snider, Willie Mays, Gil Hodges and those guys could also be rightfully acknowledged.

  22. I can’t tell you how annoying Joe Morgan is to listen to. He’s so !@#$$%% arrogant. He’s talking about how as a shortstop Jeter wouldn’t play anything else. Mantle, Yount, Sheffield all started as a shortstop. Point is, Morgan is an ass.-JD

  23. (26), Gil, It’s amazing people like Ray Sadecki who post on this blog kill me all the time. I’m a met fan (holding on by a thread) also but I tell it the way I see it and if other met fans don’t see it than they don’t have a clue on what is going on.

  24. Gil (31): C’mon … the whole Jackie Robinson thing is about being politically correct. I understand his impact, but he’s a Dodger and not a Met. If there’s to be one number in all of baseball to be retired, it should have been No. 3.-JD

  25. 29 JD, in principle, you’re right about dealing a guy without a full year in the Majors for two starting players, which is why I liked the trade in the beginning.
    Now, though, I’m wishing Minaya had dealt Milledge somewhere else for some other players. Minaya has a knack for making deals that neither help the Mets, nor their trading partners. Who has benefitted at all from the J.J. Putz deal?
    Didn’t Omar stop to wonder why the Mariners were giving him away for so little in return?

  26. (31) Gil , really, that didn’t bother you that there was nothing showing the mets history. This is the mets ballpark, not Jackie Robinson or the Brooklyn Dodgers.

  27. Just checking in… I see the Mets are again being 1-hit — by a guy who this season has an 11.20 ERA. Unbelievable.

  28. Well, it bothered me to no end, just another organizational joke that pulls me away one more notch.

  29. It’s funny how met fans always brings up that Minya got Santana but the reality was if the Yankees or Red Sox wanted him they would have gotten him. In reality the Mets were the only team interested, any GM could have pulled that trade off.

  30. 34 Sorry, JD. Without Jackie’s breakthorugh my father wouldn’t have been an MLB fan, neither would I and neither would millions of other fans. Jackie is an American icon, an American hero and richly deserves his number retired in perpetuity.
    The man carried the hopes, dreams and burdens of an etire ethnicity on his back. His breaking the color barrier is the true origin of the Civil Rights movement. It predated President Truman’s integreating the Armed Forces, Brown vs. Board of Education, Rosa Parks and Dr. King’s inspirational leadership. His succeeding in MLB started the snowball effect of change that so many in my generation directly benefitted from.
    The very fact that a schivoza like Vince Coleman once admitted “I don’t know nothin’ ’bout no Jackie Robinson” necessitates that the general public very well should know about him and the impact of his legacy.

  31. 44 tomg: Yes, it did irk me that there wasn’t a Mets museum. I hope there will be in the future.

  32. John (32) Don’t listen to Morgan – put the TV on mute and tune in Howie and Wayne – they’re the best.

  33. (43) Gil, I’m not saying they shouldn’t have something about Jackie Robinson at the new ballpark but could I as a met fan see the history of the Mets. I want to walk in the mets new park and say, this is the home of the Mets. I don’t get that feeling at all.

  34. 45 Annie: Steve Phillips is worse than Morgan. At least Morgan played and is a Hall of Famer. Phillips sucked as a Minor Leaguer and was so bad as a Mets’ GM he has never been offered the same gig since, with any other club. He has ZERO credibility.

  35. 46 tong, I hear ya. I was responding to JD’s take that the tribute to Jackie is PC. Truth is, I really like Citi Field as a place to see a game. I didn’t feel like it wasn’t the Mets’ home, but yes, I really would’ve loved to have seen a Mets Museum. But maybe because I feel like I’ve practically maintained one on my own home, I didn’t feel that out of sorts about it.

  36. Gil (43): I understand what you’re saying, but my point is MLB already retired his number for all teams and it is acknowledged in every park in the majors. Nice exhibit by the Mets. You want to have it, fine. But not at the expense of ignoring your own history. You can have both. But, if you’re going to have one, then it has to be Mets.-JD

  37. (47) totally agree, Phillips is a moron. I wouldn’t listen to anything he says, he also still has a grudge against the Mets for firing him.

  38. John, I can’t find your email anywhere on the site. Can you help me with this?

  39. 50 No, not PC. Egoistic. The design of Citi Field, a la Ebbetts Field, however nice, is all about an homage to Fred Wilpon’s childhood. Unfortunately, he’s the boss and can make such decisions as the owner of the team.

  40. tomg: I hear you about any other Mets fans trying to knock you about your criticism of the team. Some people muct think that if you dare criticise something that you don’t appreciate it, love it or care about it. I’m down on the team, too. I love the Mets and always will and it’s because I care so damn much and invest so much time and emotion in them that I don’t like the stewards of the franchise abusing and neglecting it and making it into a laughingstock.

  41. Man, that is a good way of hurting your knees or legs. I can understand why Castillo has knee problems. He keeps that up and he won’t last another game.

  42. A four-pitch walk to the No. 8 hitter with an AL pitcher coming up next? Someone please explain…

  43. I love it when the runner tags and goes to second on a fly. Why don’t the Mets do that more often, especially in this park.-JD

  44. This team is putrid. If things hold, you can blame Murphy for losing this game. Livan though is doing his best to make sure that won’t be the case.

    Awful positioning by Fmart there.

  45. No one states the obvious like Steve Phillips: “You don’t wanna walk these guys with Teixeira and A-Rod coming up.”
    Boy, Phillips just adds so much insight to a telecast, doesn’t he?

  46. Next year these guys have to lower that stupid LF fence and get rid of that dopey cut out in RF. If this stadium plays this way where you have your supposed franchise player having to alter his swing and turn into Luis Castillo, then you’re in trouble and no one one will want to sign here

  47. I’ll take Arod up in this situation. He’s worse than Wright in a clutch spot.

  48. rmk: I’m with ya on lowering the fences and adjusting RF. Complete insanity.

  49. Gil (74): I’d go as far as to say that the Wilpons ruined this season on their own by designing such a stupid ballpark. They were so busy obsessing over the Dodgers and that stupid rotunda that they forgot about designing an actual playing field

  50. Hey, they got out of that inning with a good induced DP. Almost gives me hope. Almost.

  51. When Tatis hits this grounder it better be a fielders choice and not his trademark DP.

  52. 76 Right on. I like the rotunda, though. But whatever gave the Wilpons the idea they were experts in shaping baseball dimensions? They should’ve simply polled their own players. The Wilpons are buffoons.

  53. What a STUPID call there. That made no sense. Why the hell would you send Sheffield and then bunt? Unless Manuel figured Tatis would bunt into a DP since he’s so good at hitting into them

  54. Gil (80): I don’t like the rotunda for the sheer fact that Jackie Robinson has ZERO to do with the Mets. From a societal point of view and from a baseball history point of view he did a lot, but NOT in a Mets uniform.

    I like the fan experience watching a game at Citi Field but I hate the field design.

  55. 82 Tatis has looked lost all year. Manuel looked like he didn’t understand what Tatis was doing there. I’m not sure Tatis knew what he was doing there.

  56. rmk: What we all seemed to come up with was that the Jackie Robinson tribute is nice, but it needs to be balanced by the presence of a Mets Museum.

  57. (82) rmk, Jackie Robinson does not have “zero” to do with the Mets. The Mets took their team colors from both the Dodgers and Giants. They replaced both teams as the sole NL representative in New York. They became the team that was embraced by many heartbroken former Dodger fans (more so, I think, than former Giants fans) just like Fred Wilpon. So the Mets really do, in a way, embody the heritage of the Brooklyn Dodgers. Despite what John says, I don’t think it’s a case of being “PC”…

    That said, the consensus we seem to have reached is that the Wilpons focused way too much on Ebbets Field and Robinson, and left the Mets’ own history out of the equation. That was a huge mistake and needs to be corrected.

  58. Jeff M (87): I 100% disagree with you. If the old Dodger fanbase embraced the team in 1962, that means squat to me in 2009 and they are FAR outnumbered these days by a generation of fans that grew up on the ’86 Mets and even the ’69 Mets.

    I have full respect and appreciation for what Robinson did both on and off the field but I don’t want to see a tribute to him in my team’s homefield because as far as I’m concerned he’s a Dodger and is more linked to the team in LA than this team here.

  59. Gil (83): If we ever get anyone healthy and we need to decide between who to send to AAA and get off this roster, I want Tatis gone. He’s becoming more and more useless. All he does is hit groundballs and hit into DPs and his defense isn’t even that good. Nick Evans is at least athletic and has a shot at improving. Tatis is what he is, and that’s a guy who had a nice year last year who the league has finally remembered

  60. Putting Murphy at leadoff was such a dumb move. Manuel does not cease to amaze me with his cluelessness

  61. 95 I called Manuel’s batting Murphy leadoff “meshuga” earlier. Maybe Manuel thought it’d be “gangsta” to hit him there.

  62. It really annoys me that Omar is watching this game and probably not even remotely worrying about his job security

  63. What the hell was Cora looking at, there?
    It’s a two-strike fastball right down the heart of the freaking plate.
    Another undeserved fate for Livan Hernandez.
    And Daniel Murphy sure supported him — a brain cramp in the field and an oh-for-four collar at the plate.

  64. The only good thing about Cora K’ing there is that Wright comes up with no men on. He does best in that situation

  65. 100 rmk: Wright will strike out. Has to satisfy his two-strikeout a game quota.

  66. Oh, great.
    Sean Green warming up.
    Guess he’ll be brought in to put the game out of reach.

  67. (88,89) rmk, saying Robinson is more connected to the team in LA is ridiculous. He never played in LA. He played in New York, he lived in New York, he deserves to be remembered in New York. The rotunda is well done, but it shouldn’t be THE main feature of the Mets ballpark — and there should be AT LEAST equal emphasis on the history of the Mets.

  68. You know what I dream of, as a Mets fan, in the Subway Series rivalry?
    The day when we can retort the “Let’s Go Yankees” chant with something other than “Yankees Suck.”
    Because the Yankees don’t suck.
    Sure, we hate what they stand for and we don’t like their fans’ arrogance, but they play the game right.
    Just ONCE, I’d like the Mets to outplay them in the season series and even more so in a World Series.

  69. rmkmets (97) Omar doesn’t have to worry about his job – he has a connection with the Wilpons that goes way back.

  70. Jeff M. (103): We can agree to disagree. I think it’s ridiculous to have a monument to a player who never wore a Mets uniform and who has nothing to do with Mets history.

  71. Gil (101): Lets see if Wright K’s or not. I think he either K’s or gets a single.

  72. 107 you’re right — and what a joke the Mets were against the rest of MLB that year. Wasn’t that the year Shane Spencer won a game with walkoff infield hit and Dae Sung-Koo hit a double off Randy Johnson?

  73. Is it just me, or does Brian Bruney mimic Brad Lidge’s delivery to a tee?

  74. Well he walked. I guarantee you if someone was on he’d have K’d swinging at some of thoes pitches.

  75. If this team really has any fortitude they will be smack Bruney aroudn the park here.

  76. Gil (109) Okay, we disagree. But think of it as a monument to a great part of New York National League Baseball history. After all, who else is going to remember that? Plus, don’t forget: If he hadn’t been a Brooklyn Dodger, Gil Hodges probably wouldn’t have become manager of the Mets.

  77. 114 Fortitude of the Mets against the Yankees?
    If they had any nine years ago, they would’ve charged the mound en masse TWICE to kick Roger Clemens’s ass for first beaning Piazza, then throwing a bat shard at him.

  78. Sorry, I meant rmk, not Gil. I mean, not Gil in Orlando. I did mean Gil Hodges.

    Oh, forget it.

  79. Gil (120) That was a different team. But you’re right in that the attitude still exists.

  80. 124 More like the attitude DOESN’T exist. Can you imagine for one minute the ’86 Mets — or even the ’06 Mets — taking the kind of bullying by Roger Clemens that the ’00 team let him get away with?
    This team doesn’t have the pride or the passion.

  81. Jeff M (127): The exact reason why that dumb stat that people bandy about that this team has a high avg with RISP is crap. It’s because they had so many hits with people 2B and half the tiem those guys either get thrown out at the plate or just go to 3rd.

  82. What the ^%$# was that ^%$$#$%^???!!!
    THAT’S THE SAME %$##$@ DUMB *&^&^%^$%#% $#^( I’M &^&%^$% TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  83. What has Jon Miller been smoking? Did he really say the Yankees could use another run, because they’ve just managed to “stave off” an “onslaught” by the Mets the last two innings?

  84. 136 Damn right.
    I don’t advocate violence, but any reasonable person could see that going after Clemens on both occasions would’ve been team self-defense.


  86. This team stoops to new levels of embarassment each week. What a bunch of 100% losers. Way to go K-Rod.

    I don’t care what anyone says about Manuel…he’s the root of all of this. When allstar players are making asses of themselves like this there is a reason

  87. Perhaps this would be a good time to start Citi Field over from scratch. I mean, the fans should just burn it down.

  88. I’m about done with this team. The pothead manager is high when he puts this lineup together and openly concedes games hoping to “tread water” until the team is healthy. When you have that kind of loser attitude you are going to lose. And this whole team has now adopted it.

    What a great organization this is.


  90. It’s not going to make a crap worth of difference in this game. They won’t even get a baserunner on. It’s the simple concept that KRod is too incompetent to even get the other team’s closer out who has had only a handful of AB’s in his career.

    It’s one thing to lose, it’s another thing to lose while making a total ass of yourself and that’s what this team does so regularly. This sloppy play is a reflrection of the manager and his attitude.

  91. rmkmets

    I agree. if a professional team has the aim of not winning every game in front of them they need to disband.


  93. Well, if the Mets disband, maybe the Dodgers would agree to play half their games here. We’ve already built them a stadium…

  94. I finally got the chance to see an entire game with both New York teams and now
    Howie has put this game ‘in the books’ hopefully under the Derek Jeter chapter. He’s the guy who owns a 380 average against the Mets.

    Perhaps the Mets will have better luck out of town…

    See you tomorrow.

  95. Annie, it has to go in the Mariano Rivera chapter: he gets his 500th save and his first-ever RBI, both gift-wrapped.

  96. well you cant fire the manager until at least the end of the season.

    but this team looks like last year.

  97. So, now it just becomes a question of how far below the .500 mark the Mets can sink. Any ideas?

  98. my point is that how do you fire the manager two years in a row in the middle of the season on one of the premier teams in the league?

    they would be admitting they have no clue. not that they do, but it would be an admission of the obvious.

    it would be cassandra saying the emperor had no clothes and someone actually believing her.

    We should start a petition to demand the Wilpons sell the team. Then fire Minaya. Fire Manuel. Then start disassembling the roster piece by piece.
    The Mets are completely incompetent.
    Utterly, completely and hopelessly inept.
    Their putrid play makes me want to throw up.
    Watching them is like watching a smoldering train wreck.
    I resent their lack of attention to detail.
    I abhor their indifference.
    To love this ballclub is an exercise in self-loathing.

  100. not that we can fire the owners, but at the end of the season, if the owner can buy a clue, he needs to clean house.

  101. Jeff M (156) You’re right, we’ve become so used to Mariano and his World Class performances that we take him for granted. Jeter has been my favorite all time/all around player since he first came up to the Yankees and he was truly enjoying toying with the Mets – he had a big smile on his face during those last innings and he rarely allows that much emotion to show. Talk about role models for kids – on and off the field – he’s your guy.

  102. Where’s my boy Steve C at??? How is that “winning the game by singles” theory doing now?

  103. I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again. David Wright and his horrendous power numbers are killing this team right now. 4 home runs at this point in the season is absolutely pathetic. The Mets aren’t counting on him to be a singles and doubles hitter at this point. He needs to start turning on the power NOW.

    Gill: How exactly do you want to accomplish blowing up the team? By trading away 5 disabled listed starters from the staff and the starting nine and one disable listed reliever who was an important cog to the bullpen? I can understand your frustration…I am frustrated too. But what are you going to do if the major pieces to the team aren’t playing? If the Mets had this type of embarassment with Beltran, Delgado, Reyes, Maine, Perez, and Putz still active, I can understand your comments. But there is nothing to blow up at this point.

  104. 166. Excelent points Steve the Oringnal. Unfortunately, people like Gil are totaalitarian jerks that really beleive everything in the world is done on purpose because the world is against them. In Gil
    s case, the world should be against him because he is as intolerant as world greats like Stalin and Hitler. So Gil wouldn’t be satisfied with 162-1 because the one loss was ehen he gave his time or his money to see the game.
    165. While I disagree with Mr C’s singles theory it doesn’t apply to the last series becaus ethere weren’t any singles to go along with the missing power hits.
    Aren’t you all glad David wrigth decided to be a singles hitter because he couldn’t huit 35 HRs in the dump that Wilpon built.

  105. (167) Harry: You know what else? I’m tired about the Citifield excuse. It didn’t seem to keep A-Rod, Swisher, or Posada from putting the ball over the fence.

  106. Harry, this almost makes me long for the Joel Youngblood days….(well not really lol)