METS CHAT ROOM: Game #71; Santana tries to rebound.



See how easy this game is when you score double-digit runs and don’t give up any? They can’t all be like last night. Johan Santana attempts to get back on track this afternoon against St. Louis.

Here’s today’s line-up:

Alex Cora, SS
Luis Castillo, 2B
David Wright, 3B
Ryan Church, RF
Fernando Tatis, LF
Fernando Martinez, CF
Nick Evans, 1B
Omir Santos, C
Johan Santana, LP

205 thoughts on “METS CHAT ROOM: Game #71; Santana tries to rebound.

  1. Here we go again. Murphy sits again while Tatis plays vs RHP. Tomorrow we get LHP, so Murphy’s reward for Monday’s HR is to ride the pine W, Th and F.

    Nice to see Pujols pop out on 3-0 pitch.

  2. While Carpenter has been so good against the rest of the league, he hasn’t really overwhlemed the Mets. The Mets beat up on him twice in the ’06 NLCS, handing him one loss.

  3. what happened to the reward system jerry was supposed to have? oh thats right.. that only impacts the spanish players.
    (yeah yeah i know).. but come on… drop a ball get a start?

    hit a HR get the bench?


  4. 2 of those pitches were miss called. but then again i am lookin at the play from the website.

  5. Steve C: I recall Ryan Church starting the next day after failing to touch third base, which cost the Mets a game. I recall J.J. Putz being summoned the next day after imploding on the mound. Either of thse two guys from Latin America?

  6. (10) Gil – Church is Jerry’s whipping boy. i was amazed he got to play the next day as well.
    and Putz is a isnt like he has a choice not to play…if he needs the arm.

  7. ok top of the order next inning. Johan will hit a HR 😉
    stir the pot. carpenter will then collapse :-)

  8. Steve: Manuel had a choice whether to play Church the next day after his monumental mental error. He played him. I would’ve benched anyone’s ass the next day, no matter what their ethnicity, religion, skin color, sexual orientation, if they made such an egregious error. Manuel played Church anyway.
    Manuel certainly had a choice to use a reliever other than Putz after his implosion against the Pirates cost the Mets a game. But he used Putz. I wouldn’t have.

  9. Hear that, everyone? Carlos Delgado was in the house today and in Kevin Burkhardt’s words “looks in great shape” and was carrying a bat. Sounds like some good news.

  10. (17) Regardless. Jerry is not even handed on his punishements. And whether you want to admit or not. The latin’s have his favor at the moment. I am just calling the way it is. I hated when Bobby V had his love affair with Leiter.

  11. Santana is not being given that bottom of the plate. carpenter has gotten a good call both times.

  12. We are getting no calls. Swinging at the ball that drops out of strike zone but taking the good ones. Pitch to Santos was outside.

  13. nope. carpenter is getting all the lower half of the plate the same one santana pitches. but those are balls.

  14. 19 Steve, your claim of Jerry Manuel (an African-American) being biased toward Latin American-born players is as ludicrous as it is baseless.
    That’d be like calling Gil Hodges, a white manager a racist for pulling black outfielder Cleon Jones from a 1969 game after the player was lazy in fielding a base hit, which allowed a runner to take an extra base.
    Ramon Castro, a Puerto Rican-born catcher was traded last month to make room for a white catcher, Brian Schneider, returning to the roster. Marlon Anderson, an African-American was released and Jeremy Reed, a white outfielder, was kept.
    The common denominator in all these decisions? Performance.
    The bottom line in baseball is winning and results, not skin color and national origin.

  15. 21 Yes, Steve, “Spicoli” was Greene’s clubhouse nickname among his then-Padres teammates.

  16. Sure looks like the way that the Mets are swinging the bats today, that Carpenter has a pretty good shot at pitching a no-hitter today

  17. (24) I never said performance shouldnt be a factor. I am saying that Manuel has his favorites.
    And manuel has no say over who he loses .. that is all omar.
    And did you not see me complain about Bobby V. and al leiter?
    If you have been watching the games I have seen. you can see the unevenness of it all.

  18. A hit and a walk to the opposing pitcher is pretty unnacceptable…especially from the ace of the staff

  19. 27 Steve, while it’s true every manager may have his favorites, managers most definitely are at least consulted by the GM on who they might move and at most are involved in those decisions.
    Do you not remember Rickey Henderson’s 2000 release coming after Bobby V told GM Steve Phillips “it’s either him or me?”
    But to accuse managers of having favorites based on ethnicity in today’s times is ridiculous. How would such bias help any manager win games and, more importantly, keep his job?
    Managers — and fans — base any favoritism on performance and attitude.
    Remember Bobby V’s love of backup catcher Vance Wilson? He liked him ’cause he was a gamer, not because he was white. Bobby didn’t replace Rickey with Filipino-American outfielder, Benny Agbayani, because Henderson was black.

  20. I’d like to see Church lay down one of his nice bunts up the third base line right here. At the very least, it’d move the runners into scoring position.

  21. I guess Jerry is a genius and I should hold my tongue. Would still prefer to see Mr. Murphy

  22. Wouldn’t this be a great spot for F-Mart to hit his first MLB homer?

  23. 2 men on base.
    (32) considering the number of latinos on our team now. and the fact the bulk of them are in Jerry’s favor. I was making an observation based on the ones that can do no wrong and get the bulk of the play time.
    if you wish to see that asa racist comment so be it. I , however am not a racists. I believe in fairness. and as you said i believe in it being on performance.

    I cannot see how you sit a catcher after he hits 2 3 run hrs.
    Nor do i see why i man can drop a ball. and he plays the next day. or make a bad run home. and still get to play. but hey whatever. Its a game being played by millionares.

    the game is tied. yay..

  24. BTW- i rather see Endy in Left field than Tatis. I still se it as a travesty that we lost him…

  25. 37 Steve C: If you don’t want such a dicsussion on race, then why would you have brought up your accusation of Manuel favoring Latino players?
    It’s incredible to me that this wasn’t at all an issue with many fans when the Mets had white GMs, white managers and mostly white players, but as soon as the Mets have a Latino GM, mostly Latino players and African-American field managers, it becomes one.
    Who cares what the ethnic makeup of the damn team is, from the front office to the field?! I care about fielding championship-claiber, exciting team and I wouldn’t give a damn if the Mets were 25 gay, Zoroastran little people managed by a heavy-set woman.
    Just win, baby!

  26. I agree i want them to win. and second off. I wanted willie as a manager and to succeed. and i liked manuel as well. What i stopped liking was manuel not being consistent.
    He says he reqards and punishes based on performance. But i have yet to see the rhyme or reason.

    and my issue with the latinos/asians. I rather they were latinos from america and not outside the country. I rather a citizen earning my hard earned dollars.

    Lets go mets go.. we are finally up a few runs!

  27. Glad to see that I am the one responsible for Carpenter’s no hit bid going up in smoke. And Steve C, a homer by Tatis would have given the Mets 3 runs right away instead of having to depend on someone else to do it. Once again, your logic is flawed.

  28. see that. the offense put him up 2 runs. and we have a 1,2,3 inning well done Santana! keep it going.

  29. 40 Travesty? Steve C, you’ve got to be kidding. Endy is currently batting a very pedestrian .273. Yeah, he was a defensive whiz and was fun to watch and made the best catch in Mets’ history, but I doubt very seriously any other Mets fan is mourning “losing” Endy the way we mourned dealing Tom Seaver, Dave Kingman, Lenny Dykstra, Mookie Wilson or Rusty Staub.

  30. If my logic was flawed. we wouldnt be winning. 3 singles helped us get there…
    not a hopefully long hit by tatis???? 400 feet? i think not.

  31. (45) wait a second. you are talking apples and pineaples. I never put endy in the shadow of those 5.
    But i rather Endy than Ansderson.

  32. Endy is out for the season and was a player who could never be an everyday type of guy because he was always exposed when he played too much. I’d rather have Steve C in the OF than Marlon Anderson by the way. Anyway, Jeremy Reed is just as good defensively as Endy was and serves the 4th OF job very well.

  33. 42 Steve, I respect your opinion, as unbelievably xenophobic as it sounds.
    First, Puerto Ricans ARE U.S. citizens, as the island is a U.S. Territory.
    Second, are you telling me you’d be willing to not have Jose Reyes, Francisco Rodriguez, Johan Santana on the Mets because they’re not American citizens?
    Would you prefer not enjoying the talents of Ichiro Suzuki and other Japanese-born players, because they’re not American citizens?

  34. Steve-O.. why thanks, i play a better RF though 😉 and you are correct reed is doing well.

  35. (49) i am not xenophobic. What i dont undertsand is we go outside the ocuntry instead of looking in our own back yard.
    And PR is an independent protectorate(Commonwealth). they are not United States Citizens. per se.

  36. 47 Anderson? He’s not even on the team, Steve. How can you compare Endy with him? The direct comparison is Endy vs. Jeremy Reed, both of whom are left-handed fielding, left-handed hitters who are known more for their defensive skills.

  37. um Marlon was on the team. and playing left field. or did i dream all that 😉

  38. manuel certainly has his favorites. i do not know if it is racial or not.

    do not really care. but it is very curious that for a team that is not playing well, to sit a player who is currently hot for a player who is cold.

    of the 3 tatis/evans/murphy there is not much difference in lf. they are all not good.

    however evans came up and is hitting well and murphy seems to be hitting better as well.

    at the beginning of the season murphy and church were starting and both hitting well. murphy made many bad plays in the field and his hitting suffered. both he and church were yanked from the linuep and it does not seem that the coach likes church.

    sheff played and tatis was on the bench.

    i think manuel has done a horrible job making out the lineup card this year.

    is this why he was fired in chicago?

    as for the this day and age thing.

    every manager has their biases. i have been on both sides of it. sometimes it is ethnic or gender. sometimes not.

    it happens. it still does.

  39. 51 Steve, sorry to disappoint you, but Puerto Ricans are in fact, U.S. citiens, by law. And how can you say your views aren’t xenophobic when you just said you prefer American-born players instead of ones born outside the U.S.?
    Thank God you’re not the MLB commish, or Santana, Reyes and K-Rod would not only not be Mets, but they wouldn’t be in the Major Leagues. Do you feel the same way about the diversity in the NBA?
    And believe me, Steve, if there WERE enough better American-born players than ones born outside the country, don’t you think they’d a) be getting signed and b) be outperforming the foreign-born players?

  40. Steve C: The Mets traded Endy in December –for Reed.
    Marlon Anderson was released in March. Anderson was kept until then because of his pinch-hitting skills, not for his outfield defense. Endy and Anderson didn’t have similar roles. How many times was Anderson ever inserted as a defensive replacement?

  41. 56- Easy because i am an american. regardless of my nationalities of the past. I am sorry if being a proud american makes me xenophobic.
    And though Puerto ricans were granted citizenship , it isnt 100%. To be be full citizens they have to reside in the US.
    ergardless , i really dont care as I hate everyone equally.
    I just believe in fairness…and honestly i rather see our taz dollars stay in the US. i am very tired of people in this country loses jobs and houses etc. to others..
    because they work “cheaper” or whatever…
    its a corporate ideology i am against. and nothing more. I also do believe we have great talent in our farms.

  42. 58 Yeah, right. So, by your logic, Venezuelan-born Johan Santana is working “cheaper” than an American-born player who could do the same job. LOL!
    Since when is displaying favoritism to other American-born people a component of being a proud American, anyway?
    Please tell me what American-born workers in say, California, right now would take the barely-above-minimum-wage, crap fruit-picking jobs that undocumented workers have?

  43. (61) the homeless would gladly take those jobs as would others at the poverty level. but tehy cant because they get driven out by the illegals. and thats a whole different argument. how do we go from legitemate players to illegals?
    I think i need a ruling from teh ump. i think you balked. 😉

  44. STEVE C> Don’t let that AMERICA HATER GIL the Traitor bait you. He hates America and he hates anyone who believes in patriotism. He is lucky he lives in a wonderful country like ours, that allows traitors to thrive and speak their disgusting minds so freely. Unfortunatelty, sickos like Gil will never comprehend this. He’s truly pathetic.

  45. 64- harry. easy buddy. there’s no reason to get mean. and there’s no proof he;s a traitor. just slow up. we were having a civilized discussion. at least i was .. 😉
    I appreciate teh support but not to the defamation of another who as of yet did nothing to deserve it.

  46. Steve C: I lived in San Diego for 10 years. Know how many homeless American-born men and women I saw standing on corners, awaiting trucks that would take them on paid, day labor assignments?
    Know how many homeless American-born people I ever saw working the fields in those 10 years?
    This is not at all to typecast homeless people, as I encountered many of them trying their best to get back on their feet and work. But NONE of them were trying to do the agricultural work that undocumented workers were doing, so your claim that “illegals” are taking jobs away is as false as your assertion that foreign-born ballplayers are taking away those jobs from American-born ones.

  47. John (59) I’ve been in my office clearing out my files because I’m so nervous about this game – I want Santana to win.

  48. Steve C: Don’t mind Harry. He hasn’t been the same since he stopped taking his meds. He also desperately needs psychotherapy

  49. I am on the east coast and evry day i see people not get work, over illegals. I also have friends lose their jobs to offshored workers. Its a very touchy subject. and do you know why american born workers dont stand out there for the labor. the illegals chase them off.
    but this is a mets blog. not a nationalists blog. however its close because the mets are a natonal league team 😀

  50. fricken capenter is a bleeding machine.
    come on santana hold on to this win.

  51. when i was out of a job, if i could get a job in the fields i would.

    in the current environment as with the last recession it is a buyers market.

    if you do not have the skills, look. age, whatever they go to the next person.

    corporations rather hire out of college anyway because they are new and can mold them and they will work 100 hours and be happy to do it for the same pay.

    i understand the point about many unskilled jobs being filled by illegals. and there is a great point about that.

    part of it is that many on the dole rather collect their check and complain about their lot in life than go get something and improve their lot.

    i once worked with someone who had 3 jobs. all low level positions. he came from another country and over the years was able to buy a house and send his kids to college.

    if you come here from another place you ave energy. it takes guts and will to pick up and go someplace where you do not know the language or anyone and are afraid of the authorities. of course many times they are afraid of authorities at home too but that is another story.

  52. ok i missed this. why is feliciano picthing…
    oh yeah let me guess the pitch count..

  53. C’mon guys – let’s talk baseball and pray that the Mets can hold this fragile lead for Santana – OK?

  54. Was it really necessary to take Santana out? I know it was 110 pitches, but could he have gone the 8th?

  55. so back to the game.

    it seems as if johan pitched well and the question is if the pen can hold a one run lead.

  56. Just a note on F-Mart. Even though he is totally lost at the plate, he does have a glide in his stride in the OF that reminds me of Darryl Strawberry.

  57. 72 Well, JD, he’s the one that’s been calling me a “sicko,” a “traitor” and a “facsist.”
    I’m just indulging a raving ultranationalist zealot who’s thinking this is the World Wrestling Federation in the 1980s and is attempting to get me to play “Iron Sheik” to his “Sgt. Slaughter.”

  58. Steve the O (76) I’ve always wondered about that – does the pitcher have the ‘right’ to over-rule the Manager in that decision. I’ve heard stories about Bob Gibson who would not leave until HE was ready to, and forbid his catcher Tim McCarver to ever even come to the mound.

  59. Steve C: I’m watching on the computer so it’s kinda hard to tell. He might have asked out of the game too. Anyway, hopefully Feliciano holds on to the 8th.

  60. 81- tell me you just didnt say that about me. because i was very civil towards you and was discussing things with thought and passion. and defended your right to have the discussion.

  61. Steve C (79) You can count me in on hating the pitch count – if Nolan Ryan is against it, that works for me, too.

  62. Steves: I score the games and am watching on TV and Santana had thrown in excess of 106 pitches. I don’t think he asked out. I think he had just done his day’s work.

  63. Gil the pitch count sucks. 106 pitches isnt a days work. 9 innnings is a days work.

  64. 92 Just as Duaner Sanchez was the Mets’ most important releiver in ’06.

  65. 95 Steve C: having been raised on ’70s and ’80s baseball, I couldn’t agree more.

  66. John (88) Have you ever read McCarver’s Book – “Baby I Love It”?

    His relationships with pitchers are very interesting – Gibson, Steve Carlton etc.

  67. Gil (96): They had a great pen that year. Don’t forget, Sanchez pitched four months. His loss was really felt. Darren Oliver and Aaron Heilman also pitched big out of the pen. As did Billy Wagner.-JD

  68. 95 98 I think we can thank the guy in the opposing dugout at Citi Field for all the pitch count, reliever over-specialization, lefty-lefty, righty-righty crap.

  69. 102 Oliver — who should’ve taken Steve Trachsel’s spot on the ’06 post-season roster — is still pitching with the Angels today. Mets shouldn’t have let Chad Bradford walk away, either.

  70. 104 Darryl Strawberry’s book is VERY good. Talk about both a cautionary tale and one about dealing with and overcoming adversity.

  71. I was listening on the radio. Then I came home and started reading this blog. I have to go out again, so I’ll be listening to Howie and Wayne once again, but somehow I doubt they’re going to be having the same discussion that was going on here.

  72. Dennis Reyes isn’t likely to grace the cover of GQ anytime soon, is he?

  73. (102) JD: You forgot about Chad Bradford…also known as the guy they should have re signed instead of signing Schoenweis.

  74. Jeff M (109) FYI – Steve Somers opened his program last night with ABBA’s ‘Fernando’

  75. 112 Steve, have a heart…didja really have to bring up Schoeneweis?
    (Though his wife’s dying a few weeks back and what he must be going through now must be awful for him. He sure didn’t deserve that.)

  76. 114 Me, too! Loved the hunting trophies around his neck, the slamming of the resin bag and the toothbrushing between innings in the dugout…

  77. Gil (116): I really felt bad for Schoeneweis. Both while he was here and with what happened with his wife. He tried to pitch injured but couldn’t do it.-JD

  78. This is why I can’t stand LaRussa’s managing. Are all these pitching changes really necessary? And it’s messing up my friggin’ scorebook!

  79. John (104) check your library, they might have it – published in 1987.

  80. Schoenweiss suffered from what a lot of our current guys are suffering from, choke.

    turk was great. he had the perfect pitchers attitude.

    Gil – tatis is batting .257 and playing left. i will take endy with his .273 in lf. any day. 😛

  81. 125 But, Steve, Reed, not Tatis is the Endy replacer. Plus, going on Tatis’s stats from last year, he had a better year than Endy did. Let’s go, Church!

  82. Wonder why Jerry didn’t hit Sheffield for Church, then use Reed in right next inning?

  83. 129 Steve C: Reed plays left with the same frequency that Endy did in years past, when the regular lineup was in.
    Oh and here goes friggin’ LaRussa AGAIN with another pitching change. How many friggin’ pitchers does he have on his roster, anyway?

  84. poor church. but he cant get out of a slump not playing every day. at least his fielding wins out,. But still. you need to get on base.

  85. just need a single. but yes a HR would open the game wide open. but i’ll settle on a single.

  86. Steves: Well, Church got his chance. Manuel didn’t pinch-hit for him then. To be fair, Church has been playing a lot better lately. Nothing like his great first half last year, but definitely better than earlier this year.

  87. (140) Steve C: Church has started like 15 out of the last 16 games

  88. 144 – i havent caught all the games. I just know when i turn the game on he aint playing.

  89. (142) Steve C: One thing we can agree on: Popouts to 1b don’t win games (unless it’s hit to Aubrey Huff) lol

  90. Speak of the Devil. in comes reed. i guess they didnt want a dropped ball to lose the game in the 9th 😉

  91. I hope Frankie blows Pujols away. None of this walking him crap. Mano a mano.

  92. Another disappointing thing about modern baseball. I hoped Frankie would’ve had the stones to challenge Pujols there. Pitchers are too freaking cautious these days.

  93. 166 Steve C: You’re not allowed to mention that guy’s name on this blog.

  94. (166) Steve C: That’s Frankie’s MO…put batters on and get out of jams. He isn’t the quintessential 1-2-3 guy.

  95. I guess no better Cardinal to make final out than Yadier Molina…

    Pojols was so out at second too.

  96. Howie has put this game ‘in the books’ It’s a win for Santana who needed one.

    Guess this means that everyone on the Mets really can Play This Game, not just the Big Boys.

    See you tomorrow.

  97. the umps gave all the calls to the cards today.
    the bottom half of the plae was off limits to Johan. all the running calls. we didnt get one.

  98. just got home from work…saw frankie hold on..thank goodness

    good win and series win for the metsies…keep it going vs. the yanks

  99. looking forward to seeing the highlights..sounds like johan pitched a good 7 after struggling a little early…big 2 rbi from evans

  100. (181) Yes it is because a grand slam by Tatis or a 3 run homer by Wright in the bottom of the 8th would have turned the game into an easy victory.

  101. evans was playing OF in AAA…murphy was starting to hit…so whats jerry do??? sits murphy to mess up his timing again and plays tatis is left when evans could be a possibilty out there..i read tatis made a good grab out there but yanking playing time around is a real problem with jerry

  102. singles and HRs win games..i dont really get the argument..they both are valuable and with the met lineup right now, any HRs will be a pleasant surprise

  103. we will see at the end of the season if frod is like benitez.

    he was great during the season until the pressure was on to win.

    not really what you want from a closer.

  104. so they take the first series in the past month.

    do we start playing like we should or do we lose another 30 days worth of series and walk to the end of the line?

  105. playing like we should?? starting 1B, SS, LF (sheff), CF, #3 and #4 pitchers, 8th inning guy, backup OF,……..etc with all those injuries, this team being only 1 GB now is incredible. i hope the team continues to fight and hopefully plays well with all thse guys out and stays close to the phils

  106. just heard a quote about the coach talking about evans.

    if he is going to hit he is going to play.

    there are several members of the team who wish this were true.

  107. 196

    yes playing like we should

    we have an ace, arguably the best reliever in the game, an all star 3rd baseman, quality 2b and ss. a slick fielding rf, quality #2/#5 pitchers and nieve who has been lights out.

    murphy seems to be hitting again and plays a decent 1b. a good catching tandem and enough depth in the pen.

    they need to want to win and not make bone head mistakes. their division is weak and they should win more games than they have.

    so yes. they need to play like they should

  108. Good win today, wish I could have been watching and posting.

    One comment could we stop the love for Chad Bradford already. Giving him a three contract would have been stupid.
    How can I say that.
    Has anyone looked at his 2009 stats.
    I guess not because he has spent the whole season on the DL.

  109. K-Rod nearly gave me a heart attack, listening on the radio…but so did many other Mets relievers I can recall. What’s important is, he got the job done.

    Scott (199) If Bradford were still with the Mets, “spending the whole season on the DL” wouldn’t have happened. Because Mets players don’t go on the DL until they sit around for several weeks or months with nobody able to figure out what’s wrong.

  110. p.s. I heard on the radio that Maine and Perez are both pitching for the Brooklyn Cyclones — Maine in an away game and Perez in Coney Island on Sunday. Didn’t pitchers who were rehabbing used to get starts in AAA, or at least AA? What’s the deal with playing them in A ball?

  111. because it’s brooklyn and it’s marketing and it is not about competition but about marketing and buzz..

  112. (199) Scott: How did Bradford do in 2007 and 2008? He did a great job for the Mets in 2006 and deserved to come back. Don’t you think he would have fared much better than Bloenweis?

  113. If you ask me. I miss The Submariner..
    Then again I have an afinity towards side armers.