METS CHAT ROOM: Game #51; Santana tries to get them on-track.



Last night was as brutal a loss as they come. Maybe the Ryan Church game in LA was worse. It was the kind of game that could kick off a losing streak.

Fortunately for the Mets, they have Johan Santana (7-2, 1.77 ERA) going for them. Santana is coming off a season-high six-walk performance, but with 11 strikeouts in a win over Washington.

Here’s tonight’s line-up:

Luis Castillo, 2B
Fernando Martinez, LF
David Wright, 3B
Gary Sheffield, RF
Fernando Tatis, 1B
Omir Santos, C
Ramon Martinez, SS
Jeremy Reed, CF
Johan Santana, P

121 thoughts on “METS CHAT ROOM: Game #51; Santana tries to get them on-track.

  1. I like F-Mart already.
    I’d slot him in right and leave him there.
    Wonder if — in addition to picking up his $23M tab — Jake Peavy could be had for a J.J. Putz-Ryan Church package?
    Or maybe a Church-Eddie Kunz-Daniel Murphy package?

  2. 1. I dont get why people are still coming out with Peavy trade ideas. He wouldnt even go to the White Sox and they are a midwest team.

  3. 2 Because the White Sox don’t play in the country’s largest media market, aren’t going anywhere this year and they’re not an NL team.
    Peavy may be a country dude, but a team picking up $23M on a contract can be quite an incentive to get used to city life.

  4. 4 I disagree, JD.
    The Pads are desperate to get rid of Brian Giles so they can replace him in right field. Ryan Church, as young and inexpensive as he is, would fit in nicely out there. Throw in Daniel Murphy, too. And add a prime pitching chip from A ball and reluctantly take Brian Giles off their hands (he could be a late-inning lefty bat off the bench) and that might git ‘r done.

  5. 6 How about SS prospect Wilmer Flores, who’ll inevitably be blocked by Jose Reyes?

  6. I think the package this deadline will be Church, Putz and Niese…not sure who they’ll target with it..

  7. Ruben Tejada would be the SS available … Flores has a higher cieling and Tejada is too close behind Reyes

  8. (8) Your package would get little in return. Church is of no value now, Putz is of little value because he would be a rental because of his 9 million option and his inability to poitch well for the second year in a row, Niese is making himself a valueless pitcher with his truly horrible season in Buffalo.

  9. Mejia and Holt are the keepers… any talk of niese is to increase value he’s a back end of the rotation guy at least

  10. I dont think Flores has been under contract long enough to be traded. Is he 18 yet?

  11. Niese isnt even a potato chip right now. After another shelling, his era is now over 8.

  12. 13 ed, yeah, I’d love to keep Mejia…but if it’d help get us Jake Peavy? I’d do it. Peavy is one of the elites.

  13. Why in the world did Shines send Reed there? On TV it looked like he’d be — and was — a dead duck.

  14. I dont know but I would guess there are plenty of teams that offer better prospects than the Mets. The Phils for one.

  15. harry- look at it from a sales men point of veiw– Church is an above average fielder with a cannon arm and the one time he got reg. playing time he hit, three more years of control…

    Putz- is struggling because he’s not closing, and will only cost 8M cheap for a closer

    Niese – is a young lefty with a devasting curve- six years of control

    Sell it omar

  16. 19 ed, you make a great case — except for Niese. At this point, Niese is a lefty version of Tim Redding — with about 30 less career victories.

  17. I dont think we’ll be in the market for the big pitchers – but Niese held his own in the majors – some GMs wont even look at his minors numbers

  18. i think we’ll look for a role player bat and a solid starter but not a top end starter

  19. 22 Just like Omar appeared to ignore Tim Redding’s career numbers…But from Niese’s ’09 numbers, he’s not even holding his own in the minors.

  20. I saw an article in one of the NY papers in the last week about how many good Chips the phils can use in a trade in the last week. I know nobody here wants to hear that.

  21. 25 problem is, ed, with all our injuries, we’ve got way too many role players.

  22. tejada – is 19 y/o who signed in 2006 – so he can be traded ( over 18 and over a year with the team) – he’s definately behind Flores on the depth chart in regards to cieling…

  23. Is it me or do the Pirates sense were reeling and are turning it up… It’s funny I don’t notice that from us…

  24. 26 – All Omar saw with Redding is that he was a philly killer – we’ll see if he does that for us…

  25. 34 Sorry, ed, but a 5-3 career record against the Phillies, as Redding has, is hardly killer material. In fact, Redding this year has been a Met-killer.

  26. 19. I look at it from a slaesmen’s view. Its all bull. nobody is buyingit.

    27. Sadecki… I gladly take your informed informeation to the baloney spewed out by an anti- American fraud.

  27. 36 JD, you took the words right out of my mouth. I like Reed, but I’d take Morgan over him.

  28. Anybody wanting to read about the phillies chips can go to Click on Davidoffs recent articles. It would take me all day to type the url.

  29. 36. Delcos: Morgan is gonna be 30 this Summer. He’s fast has no power, takes too many strikes. He’s another Endy Chavez at best.

  30. Over a full season Reed will hit better – Morgan will cover more ground- with beltran you dont need a Morgan

  31. Reed was Church in Seattle given a chance he will blossom – his scouting reports in the minors were through the roof

  32. Santana lost that guy after being 0-2 two balls could have been called strikes – he got squeezed in the fourth in his last outing …

  33. 43. You must be these guys’ agents. They are all substitute players. No more no less. I’d take Morgan off the bench before Reed. Can run better, can field much better, and hitting, Reed had his chance in 05 and sucked. His rlole is properly defined.

  34. 44 ed: Ron Darling writes, interestingly, in his new book, about pitchers who either decide to “give in” by purposely throwing ball four to a hitter having a tough at-bat to get to a lesser hitter, or battling through the tough at-bat. In retrospect, I’m glad (even though he didn;t do it on purpose) he walked a power stick like Adam, then got an inexperienced hitter like Andy to ground out on the first pitch to end the inning.

  35. Nice job, Luis — even if Ramon looked like he was carrying a piano on his back, coming home!

  36. 26- Gil – reed was the #1 prospect in the White Sox org. – he was the big prize for Seattle in the Freddy Garcia trade and became their #1 prospect- he dropped because he couldn’t hit lefties but still became their starting center fielder in 2006 – injuries got him in Seattle’s doghouse and he got the Health bell Shuttle treatment after that – he’s a legit sleepper

  37. 49 interesting. I’ll give Reed this — he sure has hit well the last few games. It was just our luck that Pagan, who was hitting so well, got hurt.
    That Jaramillo shot was a no-doubter…

  38. Uh-oh.
    Johan’s trying to do too much.
    Settle down, Johan.
    Let the game come to you…

  39. Awesome!
    Not only did Johan rebound to turn a DP, but now Morgan’s out of the game, too, after blowing his stack!

  40. dave: come on, give the kid a chance. He’s played in what, five Major League games?

  41. No way Morgan should’ve gotten himself tossed there. Especially dumb move in a low-scoring, tie game, when his team needs his speed and defensive abilities.

  42. It’s June and these guys do the same garbage. Bad hitting and poor baserunning. I’ve said this repeatedly but the overall poor execution of fundamentals by this squad is going to be their downfall and I think it is a direct testament to their manager

  43. Delcos: I see him as an Endy lite. No more. Maybe an Endy equal at best

  44. wow – i walked away for an inning and mayhem breaks out – how did the score get tied

  45. Yeah. enough to tell if he is hank aaron or scrub central.

    yes. i know. he most likely will be a good player. We won’t know for some time how good. The reports are that his fundies aren’t great. We need to see if he will work or loaf.

  46. Well there is the game. It’s over. This one is on Santana surprisingly because of his breakdown the last two innings

  47. the question becomes can this team afford to wait for everyone to get healthy – even though they were winning they weren’t scoring much

  48. Ed (66): True, even when healthy they stunk. They actually hit well but then when men got on base it was either the bottom of the order or DRod would come up to the plate and they couldn’t score

  49. 65 disagree, rmk.
    If we lose, it’s not all Johan. Give some blame to the Mets’ offense for once again not giving Santana runs to work with. He shouldn’t have to pitch shutout or one-run ball each outing through the first five.
    Duke also deserves some credit.

  50. Santana looks sloppy now – its funny there in that mode were any lead looks to great to over come

  51. As i said yesterday in about the fifth inning – if we loss the game all anyone will pay attention to is the pitching staff – nobody will notice that they had one hit after the third off the Pirates pitchers

  52. So here’s a question for everyone:
    Knowing there was a great chance to win with Santana going tonight, might it have made more sense last night to have used Frankie last night for a two-inning save chance rather than to have used J.J. Schmuck?

  53. this is the best i’ve seen _____ pitch in a long time, seems to be a common saying by our announcers

  54. Uh-oh.
    The Ramon Martinez Era is officially over.
    Dislocated pinkie finger.
    Nice to have known ya, Ramon.

  55. Santana looked off tonight, but truth is the Mets would take three runs against him every time out. He gives up three and he should win.-JD

  56. this is just silly – the pirates simply arent this good even with our line-up – they shouldn’t be hitting our pitchers and we should be hitting better then this

  57. 82 Not easy with a lineup minus Reyes, minus Beltran, minus Delgado and D-Wright poisoned by Kryptonite.

  58. What’s the over-under on how much farther behind we’ll be after Doug Sisk — er, Sean Green — pitches this inning?

  59. 82. Based on what ed?
    Castillo- You all wanted him gone cause he was so bad
    FMart Up too soon probably
    Wright one big leaguer
    Sheffield; Released 40 year old playing on a bum leg
    Tatis: Back up player
    Santos; Back up player
    Ramon Martniez/Valdez; minor leaguers
    Reed He’s the thrid best guy in the lineup.
    Facing a guy with an ERA under 3 so he ain’t too shabby this year

    Why should they be scoring runs?

  60. It’s the Pirates – i would agree if it was the dodgers, phils etc… not this team

  61. Ed (82): Agreed. They are playing absolutely pathetic baseball. But in reality they have been playing this same brand of ball for a while now and it’s finally starting to catch up with them.

    Gil (74): That’s a good point but Dopey was so convinced that this new windup for Putz “fixed” him so he probably didn’t even think of it. I was at that game on Sun and Putz was awful. When he was brought in last nite he should have had a really short leash. I don’t understand why KRod wasn’t warming up right away.

  62. i would expect santana to mow this team down and win 1-0 if he had to and I would expect the staff to hold a 5-0 lead on this team – thats taking the offense out of the equation – but i would expect this offense to score more against this pitching staff – IMO there simply not good enough to hold us hitless for six innings and keep us at one run tonight – were beating ourselves

  63. we destroyed grabow in citi – that was the heart of our order – this isnt the dodgers beating us

  64. Looks like the Pittsburgh team got up to play a guy named Johan. They are making good plays and bunched a couple of hits around mistakes by the pitcher.

  65. 87. You are deluding yourself. The lineup as now constituted isn’t better than anybody’s lineup.

  66. 88 rmk: completely agree. wildness isn’t easily cured by one bullpen session — and J.J. Nebbish proved it.
    And you’re right — Manuel sounded completely dopey in the post-game press conference.
    He said he DIDN’T notice that Sheffield waslimping around the bases and the outfield?
    He MIGHT use Parnell as his new 8th inning guy?
    What manager goes back to using a guy one day after his worst outing of the year, just because he threw a decent bullpen session?
    So far, J.J. Schmendrick has been a bust.

  67. Ed (91): This is what these sorry losers have been doing all year. No big hits, bad baserunning, bad defense, can’t lay down bunts, don’t advance runners, can’t hit the ball in the air when a man is on 3rd. I could go on.

  68. 100 it’s not that he can’t, JD. It’s that “Dopey,” as rmk calls him, hasn’t yet allowed it to happen.

  69. (97) they had a 5-0 lead yeasterday – i would never expect this Pirates team to ever come back on that lead

    We had Johan Santana on the mound – I dont expect him to be beat by this team unless its 1-0

    If thats delusional then I guess i am LOL

  70. Tune in tomorrow when Alex Cora bats cleanup, with Wilson Valdez protecting him in the 5th spot.

  71. 105. I was talking the offense. You should have thought scoring 5 with this line up was a miracle. And if you haven’t noticed Santana has not pitched nearly as well starting with the SF outing. And this bullpen is not much batter than it was the last 2 years. Its nice on the Omar propoganda paper but not on the field.

  72. Another pet peeve about this club: getting themselves out. Three, four and five hitters in the sixth inning of a tie game seeing nine pitches?
    Two, three and four hitters seeing five pitches down two in the eighth?

  73. Harry – I was talking about losing two straight to the Pirates – period there’s enough blame to go around – the way ian Snell looked last night the offense could have added on they closed shop it was that old mets look of we done enough IMO – I would never expect Duke to out pitch Santana but this line-up has been in the pen for three innings twice and can generate more then a slow roller

  74. Harry (108): You’re right about Santana. Twelve runs in the last four starts. … That’s good by most standards but no what we’re used to.-JD

  75. Howie has put this game ‘in the books’. Even though Santana didn’t have his A game tonight, I was glad I’m feeling a bit better so I could at least hear it on WFAN.

    See You Tomorrow.

  76. Well all the Delgado bashers and all the Reyes bashers should be happy. This is the offense you wanted.

  77. Javier valentin – is right handed can catch play first, third and the left field he’s hitting .333 in AAA …. I’d replace martinez with him for offense and then send Valdez down when Reyes returns

  78. (117) Valentin was injured last night. As far as Johan goes, he’s going thru the dead arm period maybe. Clearly he hasn’t been the same since he pitched in Frisco. You really can’t expect this team to beat anyone right now with the offense the way it is. It’s also not the best of times for Wright to go into the tank.

  79. (119) Which ones? 98 thru 200 were pretty good ones. lol. Which reminds me…bring back Bobby V!

  80. (120) *L* yeah they were good until he went into a slump and no one else was hitting.

    David Wright reminds me of Piazza years. Both were the foundation of the team, at least in my mind.