METS CHAT ROOM: Game #31; in support on Johan.



Johan Santana is pitching tonight for the Mets against Atlanta, and if the trend continues he’ll get two runs and win. The Mets, going for their eighth straight victory, just can’t score for Santana, giving him a dozen runs in his six starts.

Why can’t the Mets score for Santana? It’s as if they think “all we need is a couple because they won’t score against him.” Not a good mindset to have.

The Mets are on a good roll, but they have to maintain. They can’t afford to let up, especially against the Braves, who have a way of putting the Mets in their place.

225 thoughts on “METS CHAT ROOM: Game #31; in support on Johan.

  1. Here’s tonight’s line-up:

    Jose Reyes, SS
    Luis Castillo, 2B
    Carlos Beltran, CF
    David Wright, 3B
    Daniel Murphy, LF
    Fernando Tatis, 1B
    Jeremy Reed, RF
    Omir Santos, C
    Johan Santana, P

  2. Maybe Delgado makes that play. The throw, even with the bounce, was ahead of the runner. Can’t afford an unearned run with Lowe pitching.-JD

  3. Delgado has no range, but he has saved Wright and Reyes a lot of errors.

  4. with delgado out..i like sheff in the lineup…even church over light hitting reed.

    wright took too much time before throwing the ball…no good. got to make that play.

  5. umpires made plenty of bad calls for the opponents, Its ok to give us one once in awhile.

  6. come on offense..answer right away…and johan with alot of pitches in first, error doesnt help that

  7. Hi everybody – Surprise for me ESPN is covering this game. I was surprised at Santana’s first inning.

  8. Hi Annie, Im glad ESPN is covering more games now. Howie is great, but getting a picture is so much better. I like this broadcasting crew too.

  9. Hi Ray:(15) I was really surprised to see that ESPN was covering this, but glad to be able to see Santana. Have to admit I have the radio on in my office – have to hear Howie and Wayne.

  10. Ray (24) Howie doesn’t need me – he’s got a lot of fans around here. I like how he calls a game and Wayne too. They both treat their audience well.

  11. Lowe is schooling the Mets hitters. How solid would this pitching staff be with him no. 2.?

  12. Ray (25): I’m placing the over/under on Perez victories over the next three years at 37. That’s roughly 12 a year. For that kind of money it should be at 45.-JD

  13. if there is such a thing as a beautiful sac fly..that was it…very well done by santos..there is those productive outs jerry preached about in the spring

  14. the bounce back inning seems to hurt the mets, hopefully johan sits them down

  15. hello Gil- hopefully your arrival will mark the arrival of the met offense as well..lowe has been very good

  16. …and johan has fought..not his best stuff tonight, but only one (unearned) run for the braves

  17. Jim (39) just wish the Mets would/could give him more support at the plate.

  18. I’m hopin’. Been watching all along and still can’t understand why we end up scoring so few runs for him, even when not facing studs like Lowe.

  19. Even though he’s 0-for-2 so far, Jose Reyes has had three good at-bats, waiting Lowe out until he either gets a pitch he can drive, or coaxing a walk.

  20. 45 Hey yourself, Annie. Happy belated Mother’s Day, if it applies to you.

  21. Thanks Gil (45) It does indeed, I have two sons – who brought hostas and helped me plant them. Good kids, I’m blessed.

  22. lowe is just cruising…johan is probably done after 6..who comes in for the 7th? parnell if putz and krod are available..if one of those is not then id go with stokes i guess..nooo on green

  23. happy mother’s day annie..ill get greed for us both and ask the mets to win another one to wish you an extended happy madre day

  24. Thanks Jim (51) It was a very nice Mother’s Day, and it would be nice for me –and Santana — to keep the streak going for the Mets.

  25. a no decision at best for johan tonight…he has gotten nothing out of the offense but another good start from the ace. come on bobby…it would be so nice to see the mets fight and win this one

  26. 48 Annie, my mom is down here, visiting my wife and me, from New Jersey. Moms rule.

  27. unlucky for parnell to start already…come on, find you way out of this…johan doesnt deserve to be on the hook

  28. “perpetual pedro” – as dubbed by gary…he must have a rubber arm..another big spot here, come on pedro!…maybe the long sit will hurt lowe

  29. Y’know, I’ve seen enough of Omir Santos, Bobby Parnell, Sean Green and Ken Takahashi to say this:
    When Schneider comes off the DL, the Mets should keep Santos and send Green to Buffalo.

  30. come on pedro…i agree gil, dunno if that hapens though…does green have options

  31. when is jerry going to learn?? i dont get it. pedro cant pitch to righties. its obvious

  32. ugh, Reyes. Phillips again shows his idiocy by saying Santana deserves the production the Mets give him because of the way he pitches. Then he goes on to say trachsel who was the slowest pitcher in baseball got the least run production. Trax got the best run production in the league in06 when he won 15

  33. Hey Jerry’s coming out to make a pitching change…two batters too late, though

  34. gave away all of the runs. unacceptable.
    just cause you go on a winning streak doesnt mean you can get complacent. team needs to not do their usual of the last 2 yrs…get to thinking they are just too good

  35. (74) I was thinking the exact same think about Trachsel when he said that. Blatantly bad managing by Manuel. All Diaz does is hit lefties… especially soft tossing lefty specialists.

  36. derek lowe has been unbelievable so it may have not even mattered but 5 runs have been given away.

  37. you could see by the look on his face that Santana wanted to stay in. I am also getting tired of this stupid pitch count babying. I was reading about Kooz going 165 pitches for complete game victories in the 70s. yankees let thier high priced pitcher go longer but mets cant afford to take a chance on thier investment.

  38. Ray, I agree with you about the babying of pitchers, but Johan looked spent. He went to 3-2 on the opposing pitcher before getting him to pop out, then gave up a rope to the next hitter.
    I would’ve come and gotten him, too.
    But what last inning also proved is that this lefty-lefty, righty-righty pitching matchup BULL$#*! is overdone.
    Why waste Parnell and his good stuff on two hitters? Would’ve been interesting to see how he would’ve fared if he’d have been allowed to pitch the whole inning.

  39. Could someone explain why Manuel did not just let Parnell pitch longer.
    All spring long the talk was about guys who can get both lefties and righties and then Manuel shows no faith in Parnell.

  40. espn commentators complaining murphy missed the cut off man on the first 2 run single…i thought he had a shot at the plate and i dont hate the throw to the plate. any thoughts?

  41. Murphy definitely overthrew the cutoff man. Throw should’ve hit D-Wright in the chest to keep the runner on second from moving to third and the batter moving from first to second.
    The overthrow directly cost us two more runs, when the next batter singled to score them.

  42. (97) I thought Wright had a chance to catch it on the jump but let it go because there was a shot at the plate.

  43. 97. If it wasnt for Reyes bonehead play, and Manuels bonehead managaging we wouldnt be talking about Murpys throw.

  44. John (101) not impossible, but improbable -let’s hope they prove me wrong.

  45. ugh..good managing bobby cox..good luck for the braves this eve..doesnt feel like a good night for the metropolitans

  46. 97 102 Agreed — except “bonehead” means “unintelligent.” Reyes’s play was purely physical. Murphy’s mistake was more the bonehead play.

  47. Was that not the strangest four-pitch inning anyone has ever seen?

  48. Murphy’s throw was to the wrong base and lets them get 2nd and 3rd instead of 1st and 3rd, but I don’t get the hubub about the play, instead of two two run singles it would have just been a 2 run single and 2 one run singles, remember they got another single off of stokes.

  49. wright throwing to second- i am very confident
    wright throwing to first- i have little confidence.

  50. 108 James: The infielders and outfielders likely position themselves differently witgh runners at second and third than they would have if it had been first and second, and Stokes’s pitch selection may also have been different.

  51. #98, really just not true, you would have had 1st and 3rd instead of 2nd and 3rd, so the next single would have gotten 1 run and with 1st and 3rd again and the next single would have been the other run and 1st and 2nd again

  52. 106 Ok then what do you call messing up a play that a little leaguer could make with ease? At least murphy has the excuse of fielding a new position.

  53. 110, come on, now everything else could have been different of course. But some are claiming 3 runs on the play. At most I buy a single run and I think that is a tenous cjharge there with 2 more hits coming in the inning.

    Was it the wrong play to throw home? yes, but that is the kind of play that Murphy is going to make with his experience out there, he will get a better idea of when to throw where as he gets more experience.

  54. Come on, we need to put some pressure on the Braves here, even if we don’t pull this game out we need to not fold here

  55. Good solid at bat there to get this inning going, lets get something going ehre

  56. cora continues to give great ABs…JD ever think jerry will give reyes/wright a day off…harder now if delgado is hurt

  57. 113 Beltran, with all his experience, sometimes throws to the wrong base, too. Murphy is just not a very good LF.

  58. Reyes was trying to hit a 5 run hr to make up for his error there. He is looking terrible at the plate now

  59. murphy should get sometime at 1B if delgado sits for a while…i think this delgado injury is huge and not getting enough publicity..they need his big bat in the lineup.

  60. And by the way, while we’re getting on Reyes and Murphy, let’s not forget David Wright’s two gaffes in the first inning that led to the Braves scoring a run and Santana throwing a ton of extra pitches.

  61. Gil, of course he isn’t a very good LF, at best I think he will be mediocre by the end of the year. Got to love him at the plate though, just a lot of quality at bats from the kid.

  62. mets different team without delgado..look to manufacture more. come on luis, get on base here

  63. James: We need baserunners. I don’t want Castillo swinging at 3-0 or 3-1.

  64. annie 122- not good. i think he might go to 15 day DL shortly
    mets will need to manufacture more runs if that is the case..murphy/tatis at first..more time for sheff…somebody wake up ryan church and let him know it would be nicei f he could come out of his at the plate coma

  65. I am not saying he should, but man I mean has he EVER swung at a 3-0 pitch

  66. 121 James: That’s why in Boston pretty soon when the Mets play there, Murph will be DH-ing.

  67. JamesSC- i agree this team has seemed to give up too easily but that AB was castillo was a fine one i think, beat by a 3-2 fastball. i think they are making soriano work

  68. I would like to see Murphy at first a bit, only way he makes sense for this team long term is if he can play in the IF somewhere.

  69. A beltran hr there would have been big for this team, change the psyche of the game, these at bats are just not working here.

  70. i think murphy is the opening day 1B next yr. a matt holliday (who i dont love) type will be in LF

  71. John (128) I didn’t see that, just saw the ESPN crawl. How serious is it?

  72. Gil, It was commented on earlier in the thread when it happened. It cost one run. Reyes error cost 4 runs. The biggest blame IMO is not letting Johan finish the 7th inning.

  73. ray 138- i thought johan looked spent..didnt have his best stuff..escobar has had some success against problem was either you let parnell pitch to a lefty and try to finish the inning or you pull feliciano vs. diaz

  74. Ray: Please go back and read my post when I said “This one, I’m afraid, is on Mr. Reyes.”
    No doubt that was the game’s turning point — so far. Murphy’s mistake didn’t help.

  75. Holliday might be interesting next year for this team, he seems to playing himself into a one year deal which could be intriguing, of course if this year continues like this Chiti Field may be the last place he wants to take his home swings at.

  76. Funny, Takahashi’s windup is a dead ringer for Faernando Valenzuela’s, minus rolling his eyes skyward.

  77. Reyes deserves the blame for the inning, but Manual I think deserves the blame for not picking Reyes up there.

  78. if jason bay doesnt reach an extension with the red sawx id like to see the mets make a run at prefer him over holliday right now.

  79. 141 Jim Do you remember when the Mgr would ask the pitcher how he felt before taking him out? Seaver used to tell Yogi to go back to the dugout. I guess the Grady Little Pedro fiasco has put an end to that.

  80. Man, this is not setting a good tone for this series, we will end up needing a big game from Pelf tomorrow.

  81. Matt Holliday?
    The same one who’s currently hitting .226 with four homers for the A’s right now?
    The same one who Scott Boras will look to bleed a ballclub’s payroll dry this off-season?

  82. Bay is going to get a huge payday at this point, and I would honestly be shocked if he leaves Boston at this point, he has one of the biggest fanbases worshiping him at this point, why leave that?

    Speaking of Beltran making mistakes…

  83. Now THERE’S a bonehead play.
    What the hell was Carlos Beltran thinking making that dreadful throw?

  84. Gil, only thing interesting about Holliday this off season is that he is probably playing himself into a one year deal to prove himself at this point which may be interesting next year.

    That being said, I would much rather have Bay or another OF on this team, but Holliday could be interesting on a one year deal next year.

  85. 147 ray- you’re correct, those days seem to be gone..a shame
    gil- yea i am not on the holliday bandwagon as of now. coors field # inflation scare me..long swing does too

  86. Anyone else here a “Welcome Back Kotter” fan?
    There was a teacher who once substituted for Mr. Kotter, whose name was Mr. Takahashi.

  87. What a freaking moron, Jeter doesn’t make mistakes, Yuke doesn’t make mistakes?

  88. Did we just win 7 games in a row? Philips apparently doesn’t realize that… the worst analysts in the world judge only based on what they see in the small sample size in front of them.

  89. Coors Field is not exactly COORS field anymore with the humidor. heck I would think players coming out of Texas, Philly or Cinci have more inflated numbers at this point.

  90. But, realistically, how many games have they been blown out of this year?

  91. holliday appears to be have a long swing and i just dont see him as a guy who deserves to be paid a ton of money (which i think he’ll be asking for)

  92. He was yapping earlier about how pitchers “earn” the run support they get saying that because Rain Delay always got high run support and some pitchers just “always” get low run support.

  93. There was an 8-1 loss to the Nats and a 12-8 to the Cardinals. Other than that, they’ve been in just about every game over the first 30 games.

  94. Old Steverino just loves to dig at his old team. Unfortunately, I dont disagree with everything is saying about the Mets not being a gritty team. I dont see any Backmans or Dykstras here.

  95. i partially agree with one pt phillips said in ya gotta get on this team a little to get that anger out of them..maybe omars comments did that.

  96. It’s so funny…we’re hammering our team tonight, though we’ve won seven in a row coming in and we’re in first place! :)

  97. This game isn’t about not having grit. Lowe pitched a good game and their defense betrayed them. Five unearned runs if I am not mistaken.-JD

  98. no hammering here, cant win them all but the team responding tomorrow is big.
    harder to give reyes/wright/beltran a day off with delgado now hurt but a cora start for one of reyes/wright is gonna be needed at some point

  99. James- wright had a decent AB and hustled to first…murphy hit it right at SS… i dont see them laying down tonight

  100. true JD, this was sloppy not this “grit” that they are yapping about on ESPN.

    BTW, Beltran (dispite tonight) may be the most flawless player in baseball Philips

  101. Edge is such a nebulous comment, I mean come on. Tim Duncan and David Robinson are the least edgy people on earth, didn’t stop them from dominating basketball. Shaq is a practical joker…

  102. Ray: Why even pay Phillips any attention?
    He traded Melvin Mora for Mike Bordick, then traded for Mo Vaughn, Jeromy Burnitz, Roberto Alomar, Shawn Estes and signed Pedro Astacio and Steve Trachsel as free agents and signed off on Art Howe becoming a manager.
    Just those acquisitions alone are enough to crown him the worst GM the Mets have ever had and no other team has since offered him the same position.

  103. If only Marv Albert were broadcasting, we would know it was “gar-baage” time

  104. True Gil, but he also brought Wright and Reyes into the organization, but can’t help but agree :)

  105. 185 If only Marv Albert were around, he’d be biting a woman in the back in a threesome, cross-dressing and singing showtunes while he was at it.

  106. very nice Abs here…different from just a week ago…when we were all screaming for some late inning hard-working ABs

  107. Man Gil, you are pulling all the womanizing creepy issues of star personalities out of the closet tonight…

  108. gil- im glad no one in this room has any secrets u know of..damn, hope your past is clean as can be

  109. jamesSC- i was with you a week ago but i think this team has looked different to me since then..i know i know starting pitching but even just tonight the AB even now down 6 runs have been good
    some grit

  110. 184. He also got us Piazza, Hampton, Leiter, turk, and others who got us to the WS. I dont agree with everything he says,but he pointed out how the mets admitted they used to relax against teams like the pirates and not now. Its in todays papers I belive. I Get aggrivated seeing them waste Santanas starts.

  111. IMO, what goes on in the bedroom between two consenting adults is no business of mine, whatever floats your boat :)

  112. Howie has put this miserable game “in the books” – and there’s no reason to revisit it there.

  113. 188 Tiffany: At least miserly M. Donald Grant held Scheffing’s hands tied. Phillips had the Wilpons’ cash. Mike Piazza fell into Phillips’s lap — and even then, fan pressure on the Wilpons forced Phillips to pull the trigger.
    Oh and what a judge of talent Phillips was.
    He re-signed Roger Cedeno, too.

  114. Gotta tag this loss on Sheff. I have to think Takahashi would have gotten a hit there.

  115. I did like some of the at bats, but the at bats in the 7th were terrible especially reyes and castillo in there only chance to come back in the game.

  116. not a good feeling after tonights game…no annie here, but no win either for howie to put in the books

    responding tomorrow is important..come on big pelf

  117. 194 Jim: Marv’s sexual misconduct is hardly a secret. Where were you all those years ago when his pecadilloes put him on trial for rape?

  118. Amos Otis. Nolan Ryan. Ken Singleton. And I haven’t even mentioned Buzz Capra.

  119. 7 game winning streak is nice, but we could really use a win tomorrow, but we better get a decent game tomorrow. If we play like this again we could put together a very different type of streak

  120. I always thoguht the Marv Albert problem was that it was a hooker and was a bit too kinky for the mainstream. I didn’t really think there was rape involved

  121. 213 No, James. There WAS a rape trial. As Yogi Berra would say: “you can look it up.”

  122. Um…I heard the end of the game on the radio, and…um, I just got here, and…um, is this a bad time?

  123. Yep, just looked it up, technically he was aquited of the rape trial, but didn’t realize that was what he was being tried for.

  124. just for the record, all the baseball tonight guys said that Manuel was wrong to not allow Santana to finish the seventh as well.

  125. Yeah, my biggest problem with that move is that if Johan is only get 2 batters then what was he doing in the inning at all?

  126. Of course the camera caught Reyes laughing and joking on the bence in the 9th inning of a game that they were losing.

  127. you look at david wright and johan santana and sheffield. none of them like to lose.

    however the first ones to gab on base are reyes and delgado. chatting to the baseman as if they are long lost buds. ????
    you are losing to the team. Fire yourself up. dont make out with the team.

    between the bullpen bein verused. and no one tackling the game with any seriousness. no wonder we are losing.

    These guys need to play serious. and if others on this blog are going to call it just a game. yes it maybe but these guys get paid a tonload better than we do and our jobs are far more important.

    Manuel needs to leave the flippin starter in and he needs to have the fun and games tempered.

  128. (221) I see David talking on the bases as well.
    As for fun and games, the 86 team had a lot of fun, no? Hotfoots among other antics.
    Yet nobody complained. And the team won. There is no correlation between “fun and games” and losing, except to fans who look for reasons why the team loses a game. Well, and certain members of the media too.

    They just won 7 in a row, right? And are in first place, right?

  129. the fun and games were amongst themselves sure. and yes winning 7 and being in first is great.

    But when david screws up he doesnt sit in the dugout and smile and shrug.

    It’s probably just me, but you need to take the game seriously. I just dont think reyes.

  130. everyone approaches the game differently, some players can’t spend all their time focusing on the serious aspects of the game and need to let loose, others need to constantly be focused on what is going on. Doesn’t mean either player is better or worse, just approach the game differently. They both work hard and they both play well, fun and games is not a good thing or a bad thing.

  131. O.K i can buy that, as long as they are looking to win and not being flippant. 😉

    I just have certain issues with players making nmoney and the effort isnt there…