METS CHAT ROOM: Game #15; Can somebody please go seven?



Sooner or later, it won’t be early anymore. Baseball seasons tend to get old quickly, like your old college roommate after at the reunion.

Damn, he was young and spry and had hair. He’s gotten so old.

Pitching tends to age even the best teams having pennant aspirations. The Mets are now Johan Santana and pocket change, with any of the four capable of going either way. That’s right, the rest of the rotation has morphed into Oliver Perez. Good one night; bad the next.

We have a pop group: Johan and the Four Coin Flips.

HERNANDEZ: Mets need him to go long.

HERNANDEZ: Mets need him to go long.

Can you honestly say you know Livan Hernandez will pitch lights out this afternoon? Nope. You count on five and hope he doesn’t implode the third time through the lineup.

John Maine? Well, he started out on the rocks last night and settled down late. By that time, the Mets’ listless offense had called it a night. Coming off shoulder surgery, Maine isn’t right and there’s no timetable that says he’ll be a 15-game winner again.

Mike Pelfrey? He’s been sandpaper smooth so far, and now he’ll try it again this weekend. He has facing the Washington Nationals going for him.

Yes, the Mets addressed their bullpen, but did precious little to shore up their starters, who barely got five these days save Santana.

The keys to the collapses the last two years have been the bullpen, specifically, over work of the pen. The Mets are already averaging 3.2 innings per game, which would be 514.2 innings on the season.

We’ll see how that 2.06 bullpen ERA stands up with that workload.

Somewhere down the road – three months at the trade deadline – the Mets might be confronted with some hard choices if they are to pick up a viable arm. That might mean losing Jon Niese or Daniel Murphy or F-Mart. It might mean losing two. It could mean all three if somebody like Jake Peavy or Roy Halladay are on the other end.

I was on a radio talk show last night in St. Louis and was asked if the Mets were good enough to win the World Series. Even with their dismal production with runners in scoring position they are if their pitching improves.

If it doesn’t, well, then it’s another long winter.

294 thoughts on “METS CHAT ROOM: Game #15; Can somebody please go seven?

  1. Afternoon game, which is always dicey for a Mets Chat Room because everybody is working. Me? Still looking but keeping busy with odd jobs and freelance. Hope you’ll pop in during the day to say hello.-JD

  2. I’ll be checking in JD…it’s so disheartening to watch this team though. I should have stuck with my initial game plan….wait until the last week of September before I get involved. LOL

  3. JD- anywhere else you have been writing?…come back to Baltimore and write for the Bmore son..they certainly could use a good writer.

    in 2006 and 2007 the mets killed teams in the first inning, thye need to get back to that..(since end of 2007 early runs meant no late runs but giving the staff some early support could let guys like maine not press)

  4. John (1)
    Actually there are a lot of people who work at desks which have computers – a captive audience.

    Can you comment about the Figueroa situation for me?

    I never want to walk in to the middle of a movie, although I have walked out on movies at that time.

  5. 1973 World series highlights on mlb channel now. Amazing how I can glance at a player and say “that’s John the Hammer Milner. 1974 World Series next: see Buckner thrown out stretching a double into a triple.How many guys got to be a goat twice?

  6. Steve (2) I know this may be a rude question, but were you planning to cheer for another team???

  7. OT – Only on the radio do I ever get to hear the National Anthem – TV always uses that time for more commercials.

  8. (8) Annie…if they haven’t made me cheer for another team by now, they’ll never make me do that. :-)

  9. annie- agreed..jerry looks good with cora and beltran producing early…id love to see david hit a few balls hard today

  10. JD- did you see the 1-1 pitch to wright? it was a hanging breaking ball..he did nothing with it..he looks off at the plate

  11. 23- i will say..there is a sense of anticipation when sheff is up..he still has an aura to him

  12. jim (22/24): Wright just doesn’t look like himself at the plate. He looks tentative. And, Sheffield, you’re right. There is a sense of anticipation when he’s a the plate.-JD

  13. nice play by reyes… pujols is a stud. i wish wright was THAT consistent. wright’s #s have been consistent but he certainly has a lot of hot/cold streaks…alberts always hot

  14. (29) jimb- to me the sign of a good team is one who can get runs back the inning after giving them up. But Im not sure if the teams are good or if we’re making them look good.

    Cardinals have impressed me this series. They play very good ball. And after seeing them in spring training I thought they would stink.

  15. (30) Yes Delcos, Pujols is an incredible hitter.
    All the excitement of a gift run followed by two failures with a guy on second.
    (24) Maybe you have a sense of excitement with Sheffield at bat, I have a sense of a has been who refuses to go to an old timers game.

  16. you know your team is jinxed when you work that hard for one run, and the other side comes back in one swing and ties it — then when you need a bit of luck a guy makes a catch like that and the rest of the inning is a breeze

  17. im gonna try and get back to some positivity…had some early balls ht well of lohse..need a quick inning from livan

  18. We’ve got em right where we want em…

    thru 2 ip

    Livan- 21 pitches- 10 strikes

    Lohse- 35 pitches- 25 strikes

  19. Howie has been talking about the Black unis. Personally black clothing makes me think of gloom and doom, like a bad omen. Much prefer the blue, orange shirts and white pants unis.

    Howie covers all aspects of these games.

  20. (42) The new Busch stadium is beautiful inside and out. One of my favorite parks Ive been to.

  21. jd- id like to see reyes moved out of the leadoff spot..he doesnt see enough pitches

  22. wishy2 (45): It’s a simple park. All baseball. The Cardinals are such a tradition laden team and the park honors it. There needs to be more of that at Citi Field.-JD

  23. John (42) I’d love to see the Wilpons spring for a few statues, starting with one of Seaver.

  24. with castillo hitting maybe a lineup of

  25. jim (47): I’d leave him there. I just want him to take more pitches. That last at-bat of his was a waste. Any time he hits the ball in the air it is a waste.-JD

  26. hello jim baltimore…. Will the metsies win you ask? If I knew I would be rich and in Vegas instead of here with you and everybody else!

  27. I really loved the old scoreboard inside the new stadium.. and yes, the place reeks of Cardinals history. The park fits exactly what St Louis baseball is all about.

    I dont see Citi until the end of May, but my expectations are very low now from everything I’ve read, but then again Im not surprised with anything Mets ownership does.

  28. ball was hit hard..and to right field..positive- thats what he needs to do
    negative- wow we cant get a big hit

  29. (69) Jim, one big hit this year for Wright…only one. Well if there is a bright side, let him slump badly now instead of September

  30. OK i’ll say it….Omar has to go if this team does not make the playoffs this year.

  31. ah yes another close game – it’s kinda getting to be fun to see how they’ll implode today…. will it be the hitters, a pitcher or a fielder….as the saying goes somethings gotta give and its almost always the Mets

  32. anyone else feel the mets really need this one.. i know its early but a 4 game losing streak..ton of pressure on johan if u lose to win tomorrow..if he loses team loses even more confidence

  33. making good contact isnt good enough at this point sorry to say – if they weren’t so bad with two outs and RISP then that would be a good answer – im getting tired of LOOKING for positive things

  34. Steve (72) If we arent within 7 games come mid july Omar deserves to be canned. Heck, if we fall more than 7 games behind this year can him.

    He didnt deserve to come back this year. He’s run out of people to take the blame. he built this “team” he has to finally take the fall.

  35. are you kidding me – can we have something positive or do i have to keep hearing well we hit it hard

  36. well at least Omir cleared the pitcher so we have the top of the lineup next inning

  37. Ahhh..the beauty of baseball…two hard hit balls for outs and one bloop that found a spot…gotta love this game!

  38. from espn-

  39. it’s early they’ll be fine, there so close, there hitting the ball hard there just finding gloves —- i’ve heard that so many times before

  40. JD(93) I’m ignoring all the things we’re doing wrong and enjoying when we do something right.

  41. unreal…they make all the placer and our gold glover cant pick a hard hit ball

  42. agreee jerry picks on his two most productive – Castillo and church- hey david the cards have made five catches better then taht

  43. laugh it up with albert at Short Jose…no worries…dont be into the game or anything

  44. 114 JD- it really looked like it. he dove and watched the ball go by. great fake effort

  45. Of course Ankiel who couldn’t buy a hit before this series gets another big one today. I knew I shouldn’t have razzed him in Game 5 of the NLCS in 2000!

  46. this all started because DW cant come up with the play – but then Livan goes from being perfect to all over the place

  47. gotta keep it a 1 run game..2 runs may be insurmountable for this teams hitting with RISP

  48. lol – to funny whaen its that preduictable -one hit until a base runner then sudenly they fall apart

  49. i wish they would show the dugout – after this inning i want to see if anyone throws a glove or a hat etc… this team could care less whether its 0-0 or 10-0

  50. wishy2- can the mets ever answer a big inning from anohter team???
    top of the lineup

  51. I gauarantee DW after starting that mess is swinging for the fences and strikouts

  52. 136- this team has no one who will flip out..i want to see gatorade thrown…something that shows fire..not flatness

  53. jim (133) Doubt it. Mets have no heart or passion.

    They’ll string together a hit or two to keep their averages up, but nothing to get back into this game.

  54. It figures, I tuned in just in time for Livans implosion. How about Johan and the 4 stooges?

  55. 145. Good for him bad for us. He had a decent start last time. Its not like Niese and Gee are setting Buffalo on fire either.

  56. I was listening in the car and it was tied. Figures by the time I check in here it’s 4-1.

  57. Jeff (156) yeah… but still didnt do anything productive with the out… so I was only half wrong…

  58. Thats enough for me today…I can’t stand it. Talk to you guys after the game. I can’t take it anymore.

  59. JD- ive supported this team thru a couple years of this crap…if this season continues down this path..the “core” may have to be dismantled…what would be the first move? who goes…delgado is a goner if it ends like this…dont need him and his attitude in the clubhouse..but what about the big 3 (beltran, reyes, wright) good as any three in baseball. yet the team isnt producing

  60. Mets 3-8 with RISP today… and we got 1 run out of it.

    stats lie with this team.

  61. Poor base running judgment by Reyes. Derek Jeter hasn’t made a bad judgment like that since Little League. Then Sheffield grounds into a DP. Mets avoided getting Sheffield for 15 years because of his baggage, then sign him when he’s washed up because it’s only $300,000

  62. jim (173): Unless Delgado has a monster season, I agree that he’s gone. Reyes and Wright aren’t going anywhere, and I think Beltran’s contract would be tough to trade. … The problem isn’t the core, it is the pitching.-JD

  63. worst thing mets can do is get rid of Wright or Reyes.

    Beltran and Delgado? I wont shed a tear.

  64. 176- but there is no fight or life from this team..and to be honest as good as beltran is…he is the exact persona that embodies this team..ton of talent, shows no passion

  65. livan acted like maine and ollie today and I expected more from a veteran – he was solid until abversity

  66. El Half-Duque is good for three innings then he loses it. How about instituting the Earnshaw Cook idea for have your starter go three innings, then pinch hit for him? Keep doing this all game.

  67. St Louis’s juicer jacks one. Ours hits into a DP. We can’t even get effective cheaters.

  68. I don’t see what is to comaplin about with Livan. Innings eater! Yes, because it doesn’t take many piches for him to get bombed. He’s been a horrible pitcher for years. Why would any one really expect something different. Same with Sheffield. Teams don’t release a guy owed 14 mil if they think there’s something in the tank. Why did Minaya get a quality end of the bullpen if he was gonna fill all the other holes with has beens?

  69. have a good day everybody… frustration reigns. lets hope this team finds a way to turn it on…ton of pressure on johan tomorrow. hopefully he starts a winning streak

  70. They’ll call a team meeting. Santana will start tomorrow and beat Washington and everybody will think everything is OK. It won’t be.-JD

  71. Well the Mets have really set themselves up for a difficult stretch. 4 straight losses. 3 games below .500 Next 13 games against division opponents.

    They’ve dug themselves a huge hole. Now they need to come together and turn this ship around before its too late.

  72. I haven’t seen the Robert Altman film “Nashville” since it came out. Real ugly mish mash (remind you of any team?). But isn’t there a scene at the end where a singer gets shot and a back up singer leads the crowd in singing “it don’t bother me.I ain’t saying I ain’t scared but it don’t bother me”??

  73. (188) So what’s up with Figgy? Nobody claims him so his contract lets him refuse to go to minors and become a free agent. So was he pissed about the one day stint, or does he smell someone interested in him? He could’ve been the long man. Hell, looks like they need three long men.

  74. (194) I never actually saw it, but I think that’s Keith Carradine (David’s brother).

  75. Harry (189)- Its obvious Omar cant do the job as a GM. The 24th and 25th guy are just as important as the big contract guys.

    And Omar gets plenty of good parts, but he’s always missing something.

  76. What really bothers me when I keep hearing people say Reyes needs to hit the ball on the ground, is I remember people saying the exact same thing about Greg Jeffries, and possibly Rafael Santana, and possibly several other Mets shortstops…

  77. this team just looks stale period – i have no better way to describe it- they have no life in the game they are so stationary

  78. ed (203): They haven’t hit in this series, but their pitching has been horrid. When you give up a lot of runs you’ll look stale.-JD

  79. Beltran came up hitting .400, grounds out softly and is now hitting .393. What is his average with RISP?

  80. how come beltran hits to scrotchers early then is an easy out – can anyone be clutch for more then 3-4 runs

  81. Problem with Reyes is he isnt a smart baseball player. He doesnt know when to take pitches and run the count up. He doesnt know when its good to swing for the fences or when to hit line drives and ground balls.

    So until he gains some baseball knowledge, he should only do his strength which is hit the ball on the ground and use his speed.

  82. Character guys the Mets miss: Julio Franco, Captain Redass (LoDuca) and Cliff Floyd.

  83. Jd- til this game the most they lost by is 3 and the most runs they gave up is 8 – they could have comeback from evyer game but they havent – they’ve lost every game except one they trailed in after six except one – the offense more then the roattion- but the rotation is now effecting the pen

  84. now this one is on the pitching – every other game this year they had a chance to come back

  85. (213) Good line…
    I’m outta here too.

    Hey, the Nats are next…… All the problems will be forgotten for a weekend.

  86. Okay, I’ve got to go. Maybe a miracle will happen over the final three innings. Um… geez, I was about to type “maybe they’ll score 7 runs” and before I could finish, it became 9 they would need. I’m beating a hasty retreat. Enjoy the rest of the game!

  87. I’m back – had an appliance problem and now it’s fixed.

    Let’s hope there is a way to fix the Met’s problem – any ideas?

  88. Im lucky… my boss called so I got to miss the bottom of the 6th…

    and now our bullpen ERA is going to stink.

  89. Can we bring back the other Shawn Green to see if he can pitch better than this one? Like in 1962 we had Robert L Miller and Robert G. A few years ago it was the two Bobby Jones.

  90. I’m not going to be happy if Church sits tomorrow. But with a day game sat I’ll get over it if they have totally different lineups the next 3 games

  91. The problem is they don’t have many options. It wasn’t like Figueroa was going to turn into an ace. Maybe they could bring up Niese or see if Garcia fixed his problems.-JD

  92. somebody in that org. thinks church is the type of guy who needs pushing. I think they should look at pushing some of the others they have been leaving alone

  93. I dont either.

    With 1 lefty then 3 righties coming up I wouldnt be surprised if Jerry has totally different lineups tomorrow and Sat, and different than what we saw today.

  94. John (242) I think he is a good example to all pitchers on and off the field. I’m sure Omar has his phone number – Omar!! call Pedro.

  95. she had some very bad lady problems the big “H” full one … but all tests came out benigh Phew so its recoveriy time and adjustment now… thanks for asking

  96. JD (238) I believe Omar will just assume its a bad stretch. It is too early too worry too much. The next 2 weeks will be telling.

    He’s in a tough spot.. if they dont wake up and keep playing mediocre ball he will be ripped apart for letting it get this bad. if he reacts too quickly he’ll get criticized for panicking.

  97. Delgado, reyes beltran they enjoy themselves way to much and take there talent for granted

  98. ed(244) Please tell your wife that we are all wishing her a speedy recovery – and bless you for looking after her so lovingly.

  99. All those tack-on runs the Cardinals scored after seemingly putting the game away is the margin of difference…. Just a horrible AB by Wright.-JD

  100. He’s the only one- i truely believe the fall of the yanks from the WS was torre’s refusal to brush hitters back

  101. Also the Cardinals scoring the following inning after we scored has been huge. 4 innings we scored in, they followed suit…

    If the Mets want to compete, they have to stop the opponents 1,2,3 the next inning.

    Its nice to see they answered 4 times today also, but have to follow it up with a strong inning.

  102. do i have sour grapes is will it be less of a win against the Nats tomorrow night after the last six games…

  103. I was hoping Sheffield would bring that edge to the bench but he looks as soft as the other gently easing pujols down

  104. ed (257): You are assuming they will win. Don’t forget the Nationals helped bounce the Mets from the playoffs the past two years. They always play the Mets tough.-JD

  105. Ed(257) Ed, I’m sure that the fans feel that way, but I also hope the team does and gets their act together FAST.

  106. I think Murphy should be in AAA learning 1b for next year so your not going to get an arguement there

  107. As do i but if they do it will feel like an empty win sorry to say when their backs were to the wall they once again wilted – I’m having a hard time liking this team – they lack a true met personality

  108. i know they wont because then they have to explain why they passed on all those left fielder

  109. When I think of the met si think of over achieving scrappy players – not premadonnas who get tagged out standing

  110. Well this was disappointing…

    Hopefully this team can wake up on the flight home. Hopefully they can play well the next 3 days when i will be unable to watch/listen to the games.

    See ya all next week! Thanks JD!

  111. they miss guys the front office wanted out the door — seasn green ( over achiever) , paul Loduca (fiery), jose Valentin ( get in your ass leader)

  112. RECAP: The story of the game was again the Mets’ starting pitching with Livan Hernandez being lit up. They scored enough runs to win, but those were mostly cosmetic runs and the game was decided. The game was not as close as the score would indicate.-JD

  113. I know they were washed up but they didnt replace them – they replaced them lwith boy scouts – bet reporters enjoy the PR spun press conference form this group

  114. ed (269) Can we send Keith Hernandez into the clubhouse for a few minutes – he was never bashful when the teams he was on were slacking off.
    I can’t think of anyone now playing for them who can do what he did.

  115. ed (278): They keep playing like this and the questions will be getting harder and harder. And Manuel’s easy-going nature won’t get it done.-JD

  116. Howie has put this game “in the books” it’s a trilogy of horrors.


  117. Annie (279): It would be out of place for Hernandez to do that. The spark has to come from within. They can’t trade for it, which is why Sheffield bringing an attitude is a bit overrated.-JD

  118. For those just coming home from work, you missed another meltdown by a Mets starting pitcher. Livan Hernandez was torched and the bullpen’s ERA went up a bit. …. Yes, they didn’t hit with RISP, either. …. If you have some questions or comments, fire away and I’ll get to them later.-JD

  119. Right now 2006 is looking like a bigger fluke than 1969. At least the Phillies are losing to tease us but we know they have a heart. If I understand the MLB stat package, Beltran is hitting .385 with RISP.

  120. JD- I meant the reporters get teh perfect answers and nice smiles – instead of gruff guys

  121. take a page from davy Johnson and Bobby V.
    Keep them in teh whole 9. dont use the bullpen at all.

    do that for several games and see what happens. its early enough. Its an experiment worth trying.

  122. edfever (244) I just logged back in to see what transpired after I left, and read about your wife. Want to give both of you my best wishes for her speedy recovery.

    Sure hope she’s not a Mets fan, ’cause this stretch certainly can’t help cheer her up!

  123. To repeat what I been saying for the past week about this team is they have no starting pitching (except santana). This team is the same team met fans have watched now for over 2 years. The offense chokes when it counts late in games. The bull pen will be burned out by july because of there starting pitching and the only way to fix these problems are to shake things up. What that means is trading who ever to get quality starting pitching and bring in more character players that show heart and grit, not soft players like Delgado and Beltran. I understand Beltran isn’t going anywhere but until Omar realizes the Mets need pitching and character players this team will go no where. I’m tired of people telling me it’s early in the season when I’ve been watching this garbage for more than 2 years now. I really haven’t watch a met game tyhi year and I won’t waste my time. I am going to the met/philly game in may primarily because I am curious to see the new park. I just went to yankee stadium the other night, the game which went in to extra innings and the yanks won 9-7. The park is beautiful. I know the yanks (city) spent 1.6 billion and it looks like it.

  124. If you remember the 86 team they had character (carter, knight and Hernandez), they had grit (dykstra, knight and backman) and they had the starting pitching (gooden, darlin, ojeda, fernandez and Aguilera and the back end of the pen was mcdowel and orosco. The mets have the back end but no starting pitching and definitely no charcter or gritty players. I watched every game that year in 86, that was a perfect New York team, not this garbage. My opinion is different than most met fans. This is all on Omar and the little jack ass Jeff Wilpon.

  125. tomg, while I basically agree with what you’re saying about this team, the fact remains that ’86 was 23 years ago. It’s starting to look like that “perfect New York team” was a once-in-a-lifetime group, and you can’t blame Jeff Wilpon for all the other failed attempts since. Even the 2000 team, which managed to make it to the World Series, didn’t have all the qualities that made the ’86 team special. But they succeeded with players like Piazza and Olerud, solid professionals who were not exactly “gritty”.

  126. One thing about that team is that most of the players came up from the minors. There were key players who were brought in from the outside, but the face of the team was drafted.

    I think we have 5 or 6 regular players on this team that have been promoted and half of them are part time players.

    Yes we do not have grit and do not have the vocal leaders on the team we need. Our pitching is the same as the past 3 years. We have Santana and I believe Pelf will do well this year. That is 40% of your rotation. That is why I wanted Lowe. People said he is old and all, but he is a quality pitcher who can give us innings. Just look at the 3 losers we have on the staff.

    I think Ollie will have some good games this year. He is just not worth 36 million. In the cheapest market in years we came back with essentially the same pitching staff. We upgraded the pen and got some decent marginal position player backups, but did nothing to upgrade the rotation.