On The Table: Ollie vs. Fuentes?

Let’s just say for the sake of the argument the Mets sign Derek Lowe. We know they aren’t going to break the bank in Yankee proportions, and it comes down to bringing back Oliver Perez at the reported number of $75 million or Brian Fuentes at $44 million and a handful of relievers.

What’s your choice?

I would take Fuentes and the relievers because it would solve the team’s greatest problem, and for the final starter I’d give Jon Niese a chance, or at worst, bring back Pedro Martinez as the fifth starter.

You know what you’re going to get from Perez, and the Mets could probably get the same from Niese and Martinez and whatever emergency starter they throw out there. That includes the angst of uncertainty.

34 thoughts on “On The Table: Ollie vs. Fuentes?

  1. Ollie’s going for a “reported” $75M/5yr deal? They can ask for that all they like – I’ll believe it when I see someone give it to him. I’d go somewhere around $12 per for him tops – and that’s a stretch. Anyone giving him $15M per would be insane.

  2. BH(1). Why do you want to give Heilman a shot as a starter. Is it because of his one great start? Why don’t you look at his other 24 horrible starts? Why don’t you look at the last time he was given a shot to start. Why didn’t he? Because Bannister beat him out.

  3. Lowe and K-Rod.

    If Fuentes is going to get three years at $12-$13mm annually, pony up the extra $2-$3mm/season and tack on an extra year for Rodriguez who is not only better, but seven years younger.

  4. JD: Maybe I am remembering this wrong, but wasn’t Fuentes removed as the closer during the Rocks WS run? If so, why would the Mets want to spend so much money on him? I would choose Ollie.

  5. CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION

    I CERTAINLY COULDN’T AGREE MORE EXCEPT, CAN WE PLEASE STOP THIS HEILMAN AS A STARTER GARBAGE? WHILE I’M ALL FOR EVERYONE’S OPINION HAS VALUE TO ONE DEGFREE OR ANOTHER. I MUST SAY THAT ANYONE HAVING THE AUDACITY TO BELIEVE THEY PERSONALLY HAVE MORE INSTINCT OR BASEBALL KNOWLEDGE THAN THE MET’S ENTIRE TALENT EVALUATION STAFF IS SO FAR OUT OF PROPORTION TO THE FACTS AS TO MAKE IT THE CAPUCIAN MONKEY IN THE ROOM. TO ME HEILMAN HAS ONLY PROVEN HE CAN EFFECTIVLY PITCH AS SP OR RP Vs FISH, WHOM HE MUST HAVE HYPNOTIZED. I WOULD ONLY SUPPORT HEILMAN AS A SP FOR ALL OF BIG PELF’S FL STARTS. LOL FUENTES+SORIANO+BEIMEL or AFFELDT+CORDERO CONSTITUES THE ’09 WS CHAMPIONSHIP BULLPEN WITH HEILMAN PAYING ADMISSION.

  6. I would sign K-Rod. Fuentes is good, but old. Certainly I would take K-Rod over Perez if the money is equivalent. Perez really isn’t very good – talented, but not that good.

  7. ASTEVE, U AREN’T MISREMEMBERING; BUT BECAUSE HIS STUFF IS SO GOOD WHEN HE’S ON, HE’S VALUABLE. IN ’08 HE SAVED 32 OUT OF 36 FOR A SV% OF 88.89, ALLOWED ONLY 1.27 BASERUNNERS/IP K’d 1.00 PER IP. IT’S BECAUSE HIS TALENT HAS TAKEN SIESTAS OCCASIONALLY THAT ADDITIONAL OPTIONS ie R.SORIANO, D.EYES OR J.CRUZ SHOULD ALSO BE ADDED AS WELL AS RETAINING AYALA ALL FOR SETUP ROLES AS WELL AS CLOSING OPTIONS WHEN FUENTES NEEDS A BREAK. THE REASON WHY YOU TAKE THE NUMBERS OF PITCHERS OVER THE INCONSISTANT SP. K-ROD’S $ REQUIREMENT PRECLUDES MUCH OF THIS NECESSARY ENTIRE PEN FACELIFT.

  8. Disagree Mets62 with K-Rod’s salary being a a crimp for the rest of the ‘pen.

    We’re not talking about Fuentes getting $6mm and K-Rod getting $15mm. Fuentes is going to get $11-$13mm, most likely.

    Rodriguez will probably get $14-$15mm…that’s only a $3-$4mm difference annually.

  9. Johnny Delks! What’s up broseph! Anyways, please stop mentioning Pedro Martinez’s name. As a fifth starter, the ballboy, or the groundskeeper. He has nothing left, and you’d be willing to waste a rotation spot on him. Screw that. I’d rather give the shot to Niese or Parnell. I have no idea why you keep suggesting bringing back Pedro. did you see him last year? Everytime he took the mound, he without a shadow a bakerroller’s doubt always gave up 2 runs in the first inning and lasted 5 if he was lucky. He’s done, my Grandma Tilly can throw better than he does. He’s a hack! He’s done. 1.

  10. Harry(3): It’s questionable about him beating beaten by Bannister as Heilman had a great spring training, if not better than Bannister did. I think the Mets just liked him better in the pen then someone as wild as Bannister was. IF we are going to be force fed Heilman again this year, there is no reason why he couldn’t be given a shot at starting. Sometimes you have the best option under your nose but you don’t look close enough.

  11. Tony (11): If your Grandma Tilly can thrown better than Pedro, I’m sure I’ll see her in Port St. Lucie. … I keep mentioning Pedro because I know Omar has a soft spot for him and pitching is a priority. Is he done? He looked that way often, but he also had his moments.-JD

  12. JM (13): I agree, and think the Mets FO agrees. That’s why they’ve said next to nothing about adding a bat. The feeling is they lost because the Phillies bullpen was lights out this year and the Mets blew 29 save opportunities. That number is still hard to believe.-JD

  13. “I MUST SAY THAT ANYONE HAVING THE AUDACITY TO BELIEVE THEY PERSONALLY HAVE MORE INSTINCT OR BASEBALL KNOWLEDGE THAN THE MET’S ENTIRE TALENT EVALUATION STAFF IS SO FAR OUT OF PROPORTION TO THE FACTS AS TO MAKE IT THE CAPUCIAN MONKEY IN THE ROOM.”

    Allow me to rebut that statement with the following: I will proudly and confidently question the Met’s “talent evaluation staff” that has traded away a number of arms that turned out to be pretty good once they got a real shot in another system (e.g. Bell, Lindstrom, etc.).

    Am I positive Heilman could be a starter? No. But he has good stuff and has not had a legitimate shot (consider how many shots Pelfrey got compared to Aaron). Consider this…what did you think when you heard that St. Louis was going to have Looper start for them? That turned out decently.

  14. Harry, actually Heilman was better than Bannister in spring training but Willie and Co. decided that the bullpen needed help and Heilman was the only person with experience pitching out of the bullpen.

    JD, just correct me if i’m wrong on this.

  15. This is a bit off topic, but if there is any signing that makes absolutely no sense, it is Orlando Hudson for 5 years, fifty million. This guy is pretty good, but he’s an injury risk, he’s getting older, and when his defense declines with age, he will really be worthless. If we are going to spend 50M on a position player, it should be for someone younger and more capable of replacing Delgado’s offense in 2010.

  16. BH. While you’re “proudly and confidently question the Met’s “talent evaluation staff”, I will with absolute confidence point out the ridiculousness of your ‘evaluations’.
    Heilman was given 25 game starts as a Met, almost a full season’s worth. Heilman in his 25 starts sported a 5-13 record, allowed 210 baserunners in 133.2 innings, opponents hit .279, he gave up 92 runs(88ER) in those 133 innings for a 5.93 ERA. Those numbers inspire you to keep throwing him out every fifth day? Heilman was 26 years old when the Mets moved him to the pen. Do you expect the Mets to develop a starter with zero success until he’s, say 30?
    Mike Pelfrey(your comparison) came into this season as a 24 year old with 17 career big league starts. In his age 24 season, he went 13-11 with a 3.72 ERA(half a run better than league average.) Perform, and you get to keep starting, it’s simple. Heilman never did as a starter, then found success as a reliever, yet you would have inexplicably thrust him back into the rotation where he was horrid.
    Your other comparison, which makes even less sense, is Braden Looper on the Cards. You know, a team with dramatically less resources, a recent World Series title, and fans/reporters who question nothing. So they threw a 32 year old who never started into their rotation due to injury and lack of resources and he went 24-26 with a 4.52 ERA. These are reasons to start Heilman on the Mets? Had Heilman even approached Looper’s mediocrity, he may have been handed the ball, but he couldn’t. Thankfully, you haven’t been handed the reigns.

  17. Clearly Fuentes + relievers over Oliver Perez. I know he is a 27 year old lefty, but frankly I can’t stand to watch that guy pitch. As for bringing back Pedro as the #5, no freakin’ way. I love Pedro, but this guy is done and I’d rather see Niese or Holt or someone else’s rookie type (see Jackson, Edwin) as the #5 starter.

  18. Steve(12): The best option is Heilman? All the memories of one start. All the forgotten thoughts of all those lousy apearances. Heilman needs anew home, for better or worse.
    BH(16). Look up Heilmann’s history. He had his shots. He sucked and did better in the pen, especially in 05 and 06.
    pvh(17). My memory is that Bannister had a great Spring. He got wild when the season started but stiull got out of all his jams until he got hurt.
    Why is there this love affair with Fuentes. A guy who lost his closer job more than once and you all want to give him multi year deal in NYC where he will have no trouble at all as the NYC press and Met boo birds taunt him like the next coming of Braden Benitez! Follow the Red Sox lead and gice the ball to a kid and just let him go. Parnell throws just as hard as Papelbahn. Do it. Nah… give 50 mil to a failed closer who we’ll be stuck with until Citi Field is as empty as PNC Park.

  19. Screw Ollie, the guy was as good as Derek Lowe, mabye worse last year. Give Fuentes a chance and give him a couple quality guys around him to bolster the entire bullpen.

  20. Fuentes and sign Darren Oliver for long relief!!! Let Neise fight for the 5th spot along with some retreads!

  21. I just can’t see anyone forming over 75 mil for 5 year of Ollie. More like 4 years at 50

    If also take 4 years of Krod at 15 per than 3 or 4 years of Fuentes at 12 or 13 per

    The debate should be Lowe vs Ollie not Ollie vs fuentes

  22. I know some people have been knocking Fuentes for losing his job but to be fair to him, the ROckies over reacted. They removed him from the closers role because Corpas was the flavor of the month and he had just blown 4 saves in a row, with most of them due to some bad defense.

  23. I’ve mentioned this a couple of times but something I’d like to see is convince Brad Penny for the pen. If there’s any way to buy into that idea…

  24. Its pretty pathetic that we can only name one Met Farmhand to fill any pitching role. All the good franchises use FA’s as a second choice but us. Thanks Omar….

  25. I can’t speak specifically about those of you who’ve posted above, but generally Met fans mock and complain about Omar signing old, past-prime players to big money long term contracts.

    Now the Mets are faced with the possibility of signing the devil they know, a highly touted and regarded 27yo LH starting pitcher who routinely reaches 96 on the radar gun, and many folks suggest they are ‘tired of watching him pitch’ and are anxious to push him out the door. I find this position somewhat contradictory.

    Clearly there is no guarantee that he will improve, but given that he is 2 to 3 years away from the average pitcher’s peak performance age, and with Johan Santana as an able and willing mentor, it’s a chance I’m willing to take. It will hurt watching him bust off consecutive 18 win, 200 K seasons elsewhere in 2010/11, especially if it’s in the Bronx.

  26. I will qualify my “relievers, relievers, relievers” answer with this: if Ollie walks, regardless of who they bring in for the pen, they need to add an established starter, whether it is ideal (Lowe in free agency) or less than ideal (an innings eater like Vazquez by trade). And Pedro does NOT meet this description. Cannot have 2 holes in the rotation to be filled by rookies and retreads, especially when we don’t know about Maine’s health, or Pelfrey’s ability to replicate his second half success.

  27. No way Penny should be in anyone’s pen. Not if you saw him pitch outta the pen against the Mets in the 2006 NLDS. But he is intriguing for the rotation.

  28. I like Ollie, kinda. I do. He is a quality pitcher with great stuff.

    He is just not worth 75/5. I would rather get a cheaper starter who can fill the same role and get a pen. A quality reliever and a bunch of young cheap arms.

    I would not mind putting Heilman in as #5. He may not hack it, but it would buy time. If he fails move him to the pen. Hopefully one of the young guys will have shown enough to be adequate in the bigs by then.

    We also need to get a bench. For such an expensive team we have a lousy bench.

  29. JM(31): Penny was hurt. He didn’t go on the DL but that was the year he went crazy and started the game for the NL in the All-Star game. He struggled the rest of the way with his arm.

  30. I say let go of Pedro and Perez. Sign Lowe and K-Rod….It definetely has to be k-rod over Fuentes just because of the Mets recent failures. Also, looking at it from another angle, because not only does k-rod have more (playoff)experience but if the Mets lose with Fuentes it would be a DISASTER.And If they lose with k-rod,atleast Omar and the Mets hierarchy showed the fans that they tried to put the best pitcher out there to close games..SPEND THE MONEY! -LOWE,K-ROD,DUNN- Yeah I said it ADAM DUNN! Yes he strikes out a ton. Though at 28, coming off a 122 walk season,Dunn is sporting a Career.381 OBP. Power + High On base gives this 2009 Mets team a whole new look that they need..Either get rid of Castillo to be replaced by Murphy (wouldn’t sign Hudson;has been hurt and reportedly is set to make 10mm yr),or trade Delgado and put Murphy at 1st. They NEED him in the lineup! He’s showing (and in the Fall League)way TOO much plate discipline at 23yrs old.