Talkin’ Baseball: Does it end tonight?

Talkin' Baseball: Rays trying to take Series home.

Talkin' Baseball: Rays trying to take Series home.

Cole Hamels will be out of the game, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the Rays have the advantage for the end of Game 5 tonight. They might have gained a sense of momentum after tying the game, but let’s not forget the Phillies have a rested bullpen.

As the weather becomes a storyline in this World Series, unfortunately we could be hearing a lot tonight and in the near future about the showcase event being played at a neutral site. Yeah, that was me you heard screaming.

There are some things that shouldn’t be considered, and that’s one of them.

130 thoughts on “Talkin’ Baseball: Does it end tonight?

  1. They can talk about a neutral site all they want but that is not going to happen, haha.
    Just no.
    Because in the over 100 years of baseball and 100 years of World Series it happens once?
    The same way people are desiring domes/roofs for rainouts that afect about 5 games per year.

  2. But, but if it’s at a neutral site then the All-Star Game loses it’s fantastic home field advantage deciding meaning!

    Sadly, I think that would actually be the argument to persuade MLB against doing it.

  3. benny (1): I hate the idea. I also hated the ideas of interleague play, the unbalanced schedule and the DH.-JD

  4. Bottom sixth/That was a good play. With the game now 3 1/2 innings, runs are at a premium.-JD

  5. They had better not ever do such a thing though. If the Mets finally make it back to the World Series and I don’t have the opportunity to go see them locally in their own ballpark, I will be thoroughly disgusted as a baseball fan.

  6. I just got here and find you all talking about ‘neutral site’ – what happened?

  7. TJ (5): I would be disgusted, too. But, I wouldn’t be surprised. Next year, the start of the season, and consequently the playoffs, will start later. Why? Because of the World Baseball Classic. … So, the case could be made that to promote the game internationally (sell those MLB caps!) the MLB is willing to sacrifice the World Series.-JD

  8. OK – what is the consensus here about the outcome of this game tonight? I’m thinking the Rays need a miracle.

  9. I understand wanting to have an outdoor stadium for the elements but they could make these stadiums with open roofs like seattle where they cover the field but the sides are open

  10. ed (11): They could. Costs money. But, hell, the teams have the taxpayers footing the bill anyway, so the might as have made it a requirement.-JD

  11. ed (14): Why not? Just don’t have pitchers from the World Series teams eligible to play.-JD

  12. I can’t see a neutral site happening. Not with the money the teams bring in from the series gate. I know much of it goes to the league but the owners are not going to give up home money that easily.

    Most ownership groups have a stake in concessions also… which is the real money maker.

  13. ed (15): He might reconsider if there are no takers later and he still wants to play.-JD

  14. Ed – (14) I doubt if the players would want to participate at that time – they’ve been away from their families for months and November is the beginning of the holiday season.

  15. A very well rested Lidge doesn’t necessarily mean a good Lidge.. how many times did we see Billy Wagner have a few more days off than normal and come in and tank in the first outing.

    I want ROCCO!

  16. Annie (19): Right, and the holiday in question would be Thanksgiving. Which, I take it, wouldn’t be celebrated in these other countries.-JD

  17. John, why do you hate the World Baseball Classic?
    I think its a beautiful thing.

  18. for many the games would be home… just suggesting- I think its at an awful time…an injury sends teams scrambling because its so late in spring and it effects roster cuts

  19. If they get injured in the World Baseball Classic they would have gotten injured anyway. How is it any different form playing a spring training game and getting hurt?

  20. (25) It is a beautiful thing. Wonderful even. Just so long as my favorite team witholds their players and allows their rivals to be the ones to risk their players to injury.

  21. John (24) That’s true, but Christmas is close behind and almost all countries celebrate some form of that – I’m just thinking about the kids.

  22. benny (25): I don’t hate the World Baseball Classic. I think MLB should do more to promote the game in the US. … When tickets are too expensive for families to go to the games, when the game times are too late for kids – and future ticket buyers – to enjoy, that’s a problem. The perception is they’d rather promote the game overseas than at home. The game is thriving now, but I look at the future and I see problems. That’s provincial thinking, I know.-JD

  23. benny – spring training is a gradual conditioning – WBC is game level competition and some of these guys play like its the playoffs because of their patrotism … Alot different pitching four innnings in a scrimmage compared to Vennazula Vs puerto Rico

  24. Have people ever considered that since the MLB has to go through the MLBPA in order to have a WBC, that, THAT IS what the players want/prefer?
    They’re humans too and deserve to spend that quality time with their family.

  25. benny (25): I also think, that if I’m owner of a team and I lose a pitcher in the WBC to injury I’d be steamed.-JD

  26. THe managers of every team except Cuba took care of the major league properties…
    If you saw the tournament, you’d know.

    I mean these aren’t question marks, this has already happened. We know what’s in store, what’s going to happen and everything is positive.

  27. if-If-IF. Everything is if. How many guys did we lose last time?
    Luis Ayala?

  28. John – You’re right MLB is out of control with this expansion nonsense. They don’t realize it yet, but they’ve already lost a generation of new fans.

  29. There just seems to be no convenient time to hold the WBC. And, unlike basketball and hockey, baseball has the element of pitchers and that makes it delicate. I just don’t believe they’ve ironed out all the flaws.-JD

  30. Luis Ayala was a dominant set-up man and many thought could be a closer….He played all season, and winter ball then closed for Mexico and blew his elbow out ….maybe he would have blown it out in April or maybe his love of Mexico over throwing and pitching too many real game innings in one year was what happened, just maybe those WBC games were what put his elbow over the edge – well never know but we couldnt blame the WBC if it wasnt scheduled then

  31. it’s once every four years. Probably the funnest thing to happen every four years.

  32. I don’t like it when it impacts the game here. And, when it means risking injury, of changing the preparation for the regular season, of starting the World Series later, then it is impacting the game here. If that means I’m provincial, then so be it.-JD

  33. I dont know many that feel that way benny personally it gets in the way to me… Heck Santana is arguing about how Venzala treated the players last time

  34. Then what are the flaws?
    the time its done?

    And regarding spring training being conditioning and WBC being intense. Well, then, get ready and condition yourself earlier, that’s all.

    Japan, Cuba, and the Dominican Republic had no problems preparing themselves. Although Cuba doesn’t count because this is all they do…
    In Florida and in college baseball season begins in February.

  35. Big deal, the world series is a week later. EVERYTHING risks injury. Ken Griffey Jr. injured himself wrestling his son last winter.

  36. Whatever, there’s no changing anyone’s minds but I will ENJOY that month of international baseball. I LOVE IT.

    You guys can grope, cross your arms, be angry, not watch, and watch crappy spring training games instead.

  37. benny (45): The timing of it is the biggest flaw. I think it would best be after the season, and with the elimination of World Series pitchers. … There are only so many pitches in an arm.-JD

  38. ASk the players what they’d prefer, bet they’d say “hell no”.
    They’re already out of competition mode and exhausted of playing 162 games in 180 days.

  39. Ok heres a different topic – I feel the team needs a bench player who can play a decent ss/2b… they can acquire one cheap from free agency who looks good….
    Mark Loretta, David Eckstein, Craig Counsell, Willie Bloomquist, Alex Cintron and Cesar Izturis….

    all have played both some are getting old but this is a bench position..

  40. OK … you’re a Mets fan. Johan Santana blows out his elbow in the WBC. How happy are you? And, don’t give me this nonsense that it could have happened at any time. His normal training routine was altered, and you never know if that started the problem.-JD

  41. Anyone know the temperature in Philly at this game? It’s 29 degrees outdoors here tonight in CT.

  42. JD, please forgive me. I know this is a nice blog.


    F*** the Mets for doing this to us. Like I said a few days earlier, I will love that team until the day I die…and when it boils down to it, I am level-headed fan who takes the long-term look at things during the course of the season.


    F*** the Mets. Two straight years they have done this and I don’t sense (do you from being around them?) one friggen ounce of anger, embarrassment, regret. We just keep getting the same tired friggen answers…and I hate it.

    I hate them for putting each and every Mets fan through this. This is a nightmare.

  43. I’m not happy of course it sucks but just like any other injury that is suffered through the year, what are you gonna do?
    I’ve learned that anyone can get injured at any time. Carlos Quentin was lost for the year because he punched a wall. What you gonna do? Get angry at the wall? Maybe at him popping up? Get angry at his hand? Or maybe get angry at the regular season? or the outfielder who caught his popup?

    Izturis sucks. Cintron is trash. Loretta is still productive. I like Counsell but he wants to stay in Milwaulkee or else he might retire.

  44. No Mets fan wants anything to happen to Johan Santana – he’s the glue on the team these days, and the hope for the future etc.

  45. (55) JD- from what I’ve heard, a lot of the big-time players (Magglio, Johan) are NOT playing in the WBC as of now because of the shoddy planning by VZ.

  46. Mike… calm down dude. Get over it, haha.

    You should watch the World Baseball Classic next spring that’ll you bring a smile to your face and ease you down. International competition IS a beautiful thing…

  47. Here’s what I posted the other day in a forum…and I think I speak for every Mets fan.

    Makes me sick if you want to know the truth. I love the Mets with every fiber of my being, and will defend them against irrational fans…but this team, Omar in particular, needs a PUNCH in the face.

    I’m being irrational now, but I don’t care. They deserve a smack because they’ve done this to US, the fans for two straight years.

    We were the ones who were supposed to be celebrating like this after the way the ‘06 season went…instead, the Mets have let this slightly above average team overtake them in the final two weeks of the season for two straight years.

    I really hope David Wright and his cliched answers or Carlos Delgado and his ever-present smile are watching this. How about you Omar? Are you going to sign one new guy for the pen and tell us how Feliciano, Heilman, Schoeneweis and Sanchez will bounce back because “their track-records suggest they will?”

    I will never, ever stop rooting for this team…but through my 30 years on this earth, even through the dark days of ‘91-96…I have never been more embarrassed to be a Mets fan.

    My only hope is that Phooladelphia winning actually spurs NY to do something, both in the front office and on the field.

    Give us a bullpen, a REAL one, get somebody with some fire and for the players, go on the field and just play like a runaway freight train…I’m sick of this team bending over for the opposition.

    Show some F*CKING guts and get nasty.

  48. Mike (57): There was not the anger I thought there would be. In 2007, I thought they had a sense of entitlement, that they were “owed” the playoffs. … You heard it all the time. “We’re too good to be playing this way.” … They lost their edge and that’s part of why they collapsed. … And last year? Well, they didn’t seem to play with a sense of urgency until midseason. … You’re on with what you said.-JD

  49. Or maybe the bullpen doesn’t blow a game and you wouldn’t have ranted like that Mike. It’s the bullpen not Wright’s cliché’d abswers ir Delgado’s ever-present smile.

  50. Mike (64): You’re on a roll tonight, aren’t you? I would hope the sight of the Phillies dancing, perhaps in a few hours, would light a fire. I don’t know.-JD

  51. what is upton doing swinging first pitch? he goes full on crawford will a couple of balls out of the zone. that was a rough inning to watch

  52. benny (66): It was the bullpen in 2007 and it was the bullpen in 2008. And, the bullpen will tell a big part of the story next year, one way or another.-JD

  53. Mike while I dont share your angst. I am concerned with Omar I dont sense an urgency to make significant improvements to this team. He sounds the same as he did the last two years were he just tweaked the roster and that plan failed. While I think the extention was important to establish a perception of stability I wonder if he has too much confidence in this team which is leading him in the wrong direction….

    I hope He proves me wrong because I really liked the team he built in 2006 and the direction he started to built but once he became conservative he started losing me…

  54. (65) In your opinion, how do they fix this? I get the feeling Wright is the leader of this team for years to come, but he keeps deferring to guys like Delgado or Beltran.

  55. You don’t sense urgency becuase the world series is going on. No deals or signings are made in that time frame.
    The GM meetings are next week.
    THe Winter Meetings a couple of weeks later.

    Although I was offended at Omar’s lack of action during the deadline. That was a really d-baggy move considering it was obvious what needed to be changed/improved.

  56. (66)It was the bullpen Benny…no doubt about it. My 2 posts have been somewhat irrational but I’m not really like that…I take a pragmatic approach to the game.

    But seeing the Phillies here and the Mets blow two straight 1st place leads in late Sept is pushing me over the edge.

    The bullpen is what did this…but there is something missing from this team.

  57. Delgado is the captain of the team – there is no doubt the mgr or the fans dont point the leader the team does by the way it responds to a player….You immediately change the dynamic of this team by moving Delgado ….pick up the option and move him ….Baltimore and toronto make sense

  58. Besides a bullpen? Not much else.

    Oh you must be looking for grit. Not sure if grit is available. Grit has been in at a premium, it’s a championship caliber ingredient.

  59. (74) I agree with you Ed. It’s not that simple and the package would have to be appropriate, but a “major” shakeup needs to happen with this team.

    However, it CANNOT include Wright, Reyes, Beltran (as that dolt Francesa says) Santana or Pelfrey. I realize it might create a hole at 1B…but something needs to be done.

    I don’t have a personal problem with Delgado and obviously, he’s produced with great nos. in 2 of his 3 years here…but if there is one guy to move to shake up the team without screwing it big time, it’s him.

  60. Maybe we should compare the 2006 roster and the 2008 roster and see who/what has been missing?

    Most of it is the same. I don’t think it’s Delgado. Although I’d love to get rid of him for Teixeira.

  61. (75) I sense sarcasm Ed…and no, I’m not talking about grit, per se.

    I want a team that doesn’t sleep-walk through a good 20% of their games. I’ve seen this now since June of ’07…I’m hoping Manuel instills a different attitude come spring.

  62. Benny i bring in Donkey for first base with Delgado gone…I dont think Delgado is a bad guy but if leadership is the problem – he is the leader

  63. Win or lose this is a priceless experience for David Pierce. Next time, whenever that is, he can act like he’s been there before. He also has an amazing calmness on the mound. This guy is good.

    Was quoted once about his pitching saying – “I keep thinking I’m just playing catch with Dad.”

  64. No I really think Delgado is the captain of this team watch when he goes to the mound he’s in charge… i big shake up would be Delgado being moved

  65. Missing from 2008/2007 that was in 2006:

    Shawn Green, Jose Valentin, Lastings Miledge!, Cliff Floyd, Julio Franco, Geremi GOnzalez, Jose Lima, Royce Ring, Roberto Hernandez, Steve Traschel, and Darren Oliver.

    Take your pick as to who we need to bring back to take us back to the promised land.
    I’m thinking its the LIMA TIME curse!

  66. (84) Again with the sarcasm, Benny…but one of your guys is true in terms of being “missed.”

    And sorely at that.

    Darren Oliver

  67. Top nine/Big steal. They’ve got a pulse. Are we looking at Lidge’s first blown save of the year?-JD

  68. Delgado gone- bring in Dunn at first , Murphy at second, LF Juan Rivera, bring back Tatis and add a bloomquist type player on the bench then start working on the pitching

  69. ed (91): Moving Castillo goes under the category of “miracle worker.” … Pulse now a lot weaker.-JD

  70. I hate the Phillies. BUt congratulations to them.

    I however, will never get it. The team was just not that good. They shouldn’t even have been in the postseason.

  71. Billy begged the Mets to give Lidge a chance in 2006 said he could fix his friend ….make him the set-up man and when he retired he could take over …. they wanted Heilman and Mets siad no

  72. Is Brad Lidge crying? ahaha, that’s awesome. If he is, he’s doing what I’d do if I won the world series.

  73. I’m not pissed John. I think I’m disgusted. Haha. Good stuff though, great season.

  74. benny (102): Didn’t Lidge say this was about now? But, they were in the postseason because their bullpen didn’t give it up … because when it counted they got the key hits … because when they needed their pitchers to step up, they did.-JD

  75. My choice for Series MVP is Jamie Moyer. The winner of Game 3 was going to win it all, and Moyer pitched big that day. He turned the Series around. He’s my MVP.-JD

  76. I just want you guys to know I’ll keep this blog during the Hot Stove Season. Don’t go away.-JD

  77. I agree with Benny…I’m not really mad.

    I’m just embarrassed to be a Mets fan and to root for a team who has no balls.

  78. Or because the mets couldn’t nail down one save? John seriously. The team isn’t that good. Although I look foolish saying it, its fine.

    Despite all the players lost to injuries on the Mets side the Phillies and they’re healthy roster beat out by a game or two. BUt that’s fine, that’s the way it goes.
    Again congrats to them. I’m not hating.

  79. It’s funny…you’re supposed to “hate” the opposing team/rival.

    I “hate” the team I root for. What makes it worse is that the start of the 2009 season signifies nothing.

    Because of what’s happened two straight years, we have to wait until next SEPTEMBER to see if they are good enough.

  80. John, I’ll tell you why I’m pissed. There’s no more baseball. I have to wait 6 months—wait 4 months (due to the world baseball classic) for some baseball.

  81. Haha, nice one John.
    Very slick.
    Bring on the Hot Stove and save that energy for February/March.

  82. Am I mad the Phillies won ?
    A little bit.
    But if the Yankees had been playing and won I would be pissed.

    Bottom line I still hate the Yankees more than the Phillies, Braves or any other team.

  83. i know this probably doesn’t apply to many of you but here is why this bothers me soo much. i am a huge baseball and football fan, and this past year when the giants won the super bowl, i was happy but not as happy as if the mets could have won the series. i think i feel this way because with baseball there is much more of a personal connection with the fans, well at least the die-hards like most of us. investing nearly 4 hours of the day for the 162 games a year and that’s not even including spring training or the hot stove of the off-season, its hard not to feel like part of the team. i don’t know… i guess what I’m trying to say is that as a fan I would give back the Giants Super Bowl win just for the Mets to have a chance in the postseason.

  84. Pat Gillick did a great job with the Phillies. Be happy he is retiring.
    Gillick rolled the dice and traded all his best prospects and his team won.

    Gillick will be in the HOF one day and this is the exclamation point on a great career.

  85. I’m not sure how Ruben Amaro is but I’d be interested to see what type of GM he is.
    One thing is for sure, Gillick is a legend.

    Better than Ed Wade (which isn’t hard to do).

  86. 3.5 game lead on September 11th and our Mets still blew it. And to whom? The 90 loss Atlanta Braves to whom we lost the season series 7-11. Beat the 102 loss Gnats 12-6 but lost some big games down the stretch. Pelfrey and the team gets shutout 1-0 by Odalis Perez and two relievers was the worst.
    Get shutout by a star like Hamels or Oswalt is one thing. But Odalis Perez???
    No knock on Beltran-he’s a great player-but his talk of winning the pennant in the spring was as good as a politician’s promise.
    Thanks for running this board John, and look forward to the hot stove league.

  87. man, I am just so depressed. I havent even posted on the series. Tip caps to the phils. They played a great series. The Mets have a lot of work to do. Are you listening Omar?

  88. This really really sucks!!!! But the Phills certainly didn’t back in. And us Met fans can’t say a damn thing. We’ll have to just suck it up until the Mets celebrate in 2009 a World Series title. :-)

  89. Mike (117) Yes you are spot on. I know i’ll be interested and excited and all as the season begins etc…but it’s going to really be difficult to truly get into it until mid September. Unless of course the Mets roll and dominate the regular season like they did in 2006.