132 thoughts on “Talkin’ Baseball: Phillies at Dodgers

  1. Garciaparra gets a start tonight vs. Jamie Moyer. I remember when this guy was one of the Three Amigos with Jeter and A-Rod. He was one of the three best shortstops in the game. His has been a long fall.-JD

  2. I was at Fenway the first time Mets played there ininterleague play and Piazza hit 2 over the green monster and Nomar hit 4 line drives off it. They were both something special then and it was only eitght or nine years ago.

  3. I remember the Ted Williams game at Fenway in 1999(?) when the three shortstops were there and Arod made the switch with Cal Ripken.

    I really haven’t followed Nomar and the Dodgers too much – has he played first before?

    I really know more about Mia after her ‘Centerstage’ interview with M.Kay.

  4. I’m sorry, Ramirez might be one of the best hitters in the game, but he’s just impossible to root for.-JD

  5. Joe Torre is going to have be a trivia answer as to what manager coached three of the best shortstops in modern day baseball (although AROD technically played third for him).

    I also agree about that Mary Hart introduction. Insulin shots for everyone!!!!

  6. I’m happy to hear Tim again – I remember when he did the Mets games with Kiner. In fact I have a signed scorecard from Tim from a Mets/Expos game. It’s on my office door.

  7. The Dodgers need to come out of this inning with at least four runs. Put the hammer down now.-JD

  8. Graciaparra is just a shell of his former self. Years ago, he would have been protecting against that third strike. He could keep a pitcher up there indefinitely fouling them off until he got something he could handle.

  9. Stillsane: And the pitch he got punched out on he would have driven into the gap.-JD

  10. Absolutely….And when did Kemp become Marlon Anderson? The sequence of events occurring is strangely familiar!

  11. I spoke too soon. If the Dodgers come back and win this series, that might be the key hit. A 2-0 deficit is nothing to the Phillies. But, 5-0 changes everything.-JD

  12. #16……. “A 2-0 deficit is nothing to the Phillies.” It would have been a death sentence for the 2008 Mets. The more I watch other teams bullpens and offenses in the playoffs…..the more I realize the Mets weren’t as good as I thought they were.

  13. chucky (19): You’re right. It wouldn’t have mattered who they played, they wouldn’t have gotten out of the first round. They would have been totally overmatched. Even the Cubs would’ve beaten them.-JD

  14. #20…yep…..Omar’s gotta alot of work to do this winter. Just stating the obvious, I think we all know that.

  15. chucky (21): They have a lot of holes, but I think adding a starter and overhauling the bullpen makes them maybe ten games better. That’s why I think going after Manny is money not well spent.-JD

  16. Annie: I was at that game. I knew I was watching something special. And then Ripken homered.-JD

  17. I remember how careful Jeter was with Ted Williams and how Ted was tearing up as he drove around the field. It was a terrific game.

  18. Annie: The All-Star Game you mentioned at Fenway was special. I’ll never forget those All-Stars crowding around Williams. … And, that was the game when Pedro struck out five straight.-JD

  19. Annie (29): Some of the greatest games I’ve seen were the Yankee-Arizona WS games at the Stadium in 2001 … the Yankee-Red Sox playoff games in 2003 and 2004 … and the Elway Drive game against the Browns.-JD

  20. I like Victorino. He knew he was going to get buzzed, but he didn’t charge the mound. … But, there’s that ass Ramirez over reacting as usual. He did the same thing in the playoffs against the Yankees on a pitch from Clemens that wasn’t even close.-JD

  21. What happened?

    I saw Victorino (my least favorite player in all of baseball) yelling right when I turned on the TV…

  22. Don’t confuse me by adding football games about which I know nothing except that John Elway went to Stanford.

    Why are we having such a nasty game here at Dodger Stadium tonight?

  23. 31……I agree…most Met fans hate the guy but I wish he was on our team. We could use some of his moxie.

  24. #22…..and I might help if “the core” plays all out for 162 games this season instead of just for managers they like.

  25. Bryan (32): Let me see if I can get this in before the replay. … Martin got buzzed. … Victorino got buzzed on a pitch over his head. He gestured to the pitcher it was all right to throw at his ribs but not his head. … Victorino grounded out to first and said something. … Benches emptied. … Ramirez got testy.-JD

  26. Hello Mets, are you watching this game? What the dodgers just showed is that they have heart, backbone and not taking any crap from the philthies. This is something the mets don’t have. Paging Omar, bring in players with grit and heart and don’t take crap.

  27. Chucky – we had a guy like that, Lastings Milledge – remember? — and it just didn’t work out.

  28. Ah, thanks.

    Let me clarify about Victorino. It’s not so much that I don’t like HIM… but I just can’t get over the Phillies announcers saying that Reyes needs one in the ear when Victorino does the jump on home plate/stare in to the Mets dugout with every big run he scores.

    He rubs me the same way I’m sure Jose Reyes rubs fans of a bunch of other teams…

  29. Annie (40): You must be joking. I wouldn’t trade Victorino for five Lastings Milledges. A cocky attitude is not grit.-JD

  30. I can’t stand victorino either. I wish that fastball would have hit him in the head, screw victorino.

  31. Bryan (43): Reyes does rub a lot of people the wrong way. He’s a big reason why teams like to take it out on the Mets.-JD

  32. #40……yeah…..liked the attitude (except showing up late for games)…but he was a sucker for sliders low and away and although he had a great arm he was a defensive liability. I think us getting Church straight up was a good deal. Getting Schneider thrown in was a real bonus. Plus he didn’t really have the status as a veteran to be a leader, so he was just regarded as some show off kid.

  33. #46…….If he were traded to the Mets tomorrow……you’d love him. He’s the guy you hate when he’s the opposition and love when he’s on your side. Kinda like Chipper psychologically although of course they are too different type of players.

  34. Here it is, I should have known – it was in Cleveland.

    The Drive secures Elway’s legacy

    © St. Petersburg Times, published October 23, 1999


    John Elway had a basic game plan: “We don’t look at the situation. We look at what we can do about the situation.”

    The situation confronting Elway and the Denver Broncos in Cleveland on Jan. 11, 1987, was this: The wind chill was 5 degrees, the Broncos trailed by seven points with 5 minutes, 43 seconds to play, the AFC championship was on the line — and the ball was on their 2-yard line.

    “We’ve done well all year with our backs to the wall,” Elway said, “and we couldn’t get any closer to the wall.”

    Elway proceeded to direct what would become known simply as The Drive.

    “Because of John, our team never thinks it’s out of the game,” coach Dan Reeves said. “That’s a good feeling.”

    Elway had by then established himself as the premier come-from-behind quarterback. This elevated him to near-mythic proportions. He guided the Broncos 98 yards to the tying TD with 39 seconds remaining.

    For good measure, he threw in a drive of 60 yards the first time the Broncos got the ball in overtime. His third-and-12 scramble-throw to Steve Watson set up Rich Karlis’ 33-yard field goal that won the game 23-20 and sent Denver to the Super Bowl.

    “Being human,” wide receiver Vance Johnson said, “you tend to doubt yourself at times. But John never seemed to doubt anything at the end. Very seldom have I seen him that calm.”

    Elway completed 5 of 8 passes for 73 yards in The Drive. The Broncos had to convert three third-down situations along the way.

    Several times The Drive nearly stalled.


    On third and 2 from the Broncos 10, Sammy Winder ran for 2 yards. After Winder ran for 3 more yards, Elway got it in gear. He scrambled for 11, then passed for 22 to Steve Sewell and 12 to Watson.

    After an incompletion and an 8-yard sack, Elway faced third and 18. With the Broncos in shotgun formation, Watson went in motion passing in front of Elway when the ball was snapped. “It grazed my left thigh,” Watson said.

    But Elway caught it and passed 20 yards to Mark Jackson at the Browns 28, and 14 to Sewell to halve the distance to the goal line.

    The first-down pass was incomplete — Watson caught it just out of the end zone — so Elway ran for 9 to create third and 1 at Cleveland’s 5. The plan was to throw to running back Gerald Willhite in the flats, but he was covered. So Elway threw it to Jackson in the middle of the end zone. Karlis’ extra point tied it. The fight seemed to go out of the Browns.

    “I think becoming involved with the Super Bowl quest is a lot like falling in love,” Browns linebacker Clay Matthews said. “You dive headfirst and you don’t worry about the consequences. It felt so good. But today, we broke up.”

    Elway would break Cleveland’s heart again a year later in the AFC title game, and again during the 1991 season (before the Browns broke it by leaving), but this drive was the crusher. “There’s no way to put the emotions into words,” Browns nose tackle Bob Golic said. “I’m just empty.”

  35. Lowe going tomorrow. If LA wins tonight I can see them tying it up tomorrow. Looking forward to watching the Rays-Red Sox tomorrow afternoon.-JD

  36. #57………speaking of Lowe…..possible closer for us next year if K Rod or Fuentes is unattainable?……I remember Jeter saying at one point when Lowe was with the Red Sox that he was the reliever he found the toughest to face.

  37. chucky (59): It’s not a bad idea, but Lowe had a good year and I don’t believe he’ll want to give up the starter’s dollars.-JD

  38. #62……well I was thinking if we can’t get one of the big two ……we can afford to pay him starter dollars even if he closes. I believe he’s 36 and not getting any younger …..another 5 inning starter would be the last thing we need, we already got enough of those, but he could shine coming in for an inning every other night or so.

  39. #63…….I luv Manny……but a bad mix for our clubhouse, we actually need a Victorino type ( ducking….lol)

  40. JD(63) Totally agree, the last thing the mets need is another head case that would turn the club house into cancer. It’s bad enough the mets have to many of those players now, like delgado and wagner to name a few.

  41. chucky (65): Good point. There are enough issues as it is in Mets clubhouse. Would you want Ramirez around to influence Reyes? I don’t think so. And, I think he and Delgado wouldn’t be chummy, either.-JD

  42. John – Tiger grew up in LA and his Mom still lives there. (He went to Stanford, too)

  43. John, in one word, what do you think the biggest difference between the Mets and the Phillies in 2008 was?

    I think a lot of Mets fans like to throw around cliches like “heart” and “grit.” But to me it can be summed up in one word: bullpen.

    I don’t think the Phillies gained intangibles from 2006 to 2007. They simply improved their pen where the Mets bullpen regressed… a lot.

  44. For those wondering, Patriots were stuffed on fourth-and-goal and are getting beat by 17-3 in the third quarter at San Diego.-JD

  45. Good news. I’m a big Phil Rivers fan since he went to my alma mater when I was there and I’m a huge Jets fan so any Pats loss helps our cause.

    Looks like the Bills will be in first place for now. Nice win by the Texans today to keep the Phins under .500… The Jets schedule is pretty easy heading in to a big showdown in 3 weeks at Buffalo.

  46. #70……..I realize it wasn’t directed at me..but figured I’d get my two cents in….. if one of either these two things happened, the Mets would be in the playoffs at least. 1/ “The core” played hard all year. Especially, Delgado and Beltran magically came alive once Randolph was gone. If they are making the money they are making….they should play hard if Gengis Khan was the manager. 2/ If the bullpen just blew half the saves it blew, we would have clinched in early Sept. Take your pick on who to blame. I don’t agree with the pundits who called for the “core” to be traded, but they do deserve a big part of the blame and a swift kick in the butt. Where’s Gil Hodges when you need him? :)

  47. Bryan (73): Whenever you think the Jets have an easy schedule something always happens.-JD

  48. Delgado is an interesting case, but I really can’t see Beltran doing that. I really think it took him some time to get his legs back after his knee surgery during the offseason.

    Frankly, with the amount of energy Beltran needed to use playing CF with essentially two middle infielders beside him in the outfield, I’m AMAZED he finished as strong as he did.

    I think Carlos Beltran will go down as one of the most underappreciated Mets of all time. Only after he is gone and we have a normal CF (offensively and defensively) will he get the appreciation he deserves from Mets fans.

  49. (75)
    Yeah, that’s the way it is being a Jets fan. But with Favre looking like he has something started with Coles and a much stronger defense than in years past maybe things can change for once.

  50. I’ve been really impressed with Victorino… tonight just jumped it up a notch.

    The kid knows the game. “Buzzing” is a part of the game. To stand there and say “It’s ok here but not here” he gets it. I like that.

  51. chucky (74): The bullpen gets most of the ire because 29 blown saves is hard to ignore, but you’re right. The core had it’s less than glorious moments. Delgado was AWOL for nearly the first three months of the season. Wright and Beltran also had dry spells. … Then, there were Maine and Perez, both of whom won 15 games in 2007 but had off years. … And, the Church injury.-JD

  52. 76…Part of Beltran’s problem is all the hype he was brought over here with…..especially after that insane 04 playoff series. That was the hottest he ever was in his career and of course he could never live up to it again and another is the image of him sitting there looking at that Adam Wainwright pitch like a deer caught in the headlights. Fair or not, that’s how a lot of Mets fans will remember him until does something to make them forget all about it.

  53. Bryan (76): Beltran’s knees sapped his power and prevented him from running early in the season. Was he ever 100 percent? Probably not.-JD

  54. Sam G.: I agree with you. Some guys would have charged the mound and gotten tossed. He kept his cool. I like him a lot.-JD

  55. chucky (80): There was no way Beltran could have lived up to the expectations after that playoff series. … Yeah, you’re right about the Wainwright pitch, but that was a nasty breaking ball. He had no chance. … That game was officially lost with the Molina homer off Heilman. But, in truth they had a chance to break the game open in the bottom of the inning after Endy’s catch and came away empty. That’s where that game was lost.-JD

  56. #83……what you say is true…but with the game on the line…..the fans expect the big free agent acquisition who most of the media was saying would change the franchise….along with Pedro……from perennial losers into winners to come through……….he didn’t.

  57. About Beltran. I know I am biased, but I’d say he is the best centerfielder in baseball. Defense, Offense, the way he helps his teammates, I just love the guy. Like everyone has said, he is vastly underappreciated, maybe because he is not a “watch me” type player, I don’t know? However, he is, in my Mets opinion, the best CF in baseball.

    Lets go dodgers!

  58. 86…….I think he’s a good centerfielder….and good offensive player……some of those expectations is that he’s overrated. He’s a good guy to have on the team……but not a difference maker. A good supplemental part to have, but not a guy who’ll put you over the top.

  59. Yes, the Mets finishing first in NL attendance guaranteed that they frustrated more fans than any other team!

  60. Geoff (86): What works against Beltran is his personality. He’s shy. He doesn’t command a lot of attention, and in fact, doesn’t like it. If Beltran were flashy he’d get a lot more recognition for being as good as he is.-JD

  61. wow, who was that girl singing God Bless America? She had to be less than 10 years old. What a voice.

  62. If Manny makes it to the WS and the Red Sox do also……..can’t wait to see the reception he’ll get at Fenway.

  63. Buck and McCarver just tweaked Ramirez for how he left Boston, but they could have been harder on him. McCarver had been harsher before.-JD

  64. John – Did they always have someone sing God Bless America in LA? Or, is that something that LA got along with Torre?

  65. chucky (97): It will be vicious. Worse than how they treat Jeter and A-Rod. But, it will be deserved. Personally, I think the Red Sox will be sentimental favorites in that scenario.-JD

  66. wow, if the Dodgers go to the World Series the Red Sox have to pay Manny even more money.

  67. #103 … that’s what they were just saying on FOX now. Talking about how the Red Sox would be paying him and possibly trying to beat him.

  68. Out of curiosity……anyone know if they have any plans to replace Dodger Stadium anytime soon…….I believe it’s older than Shea was.

  69. John – The girl did a nice job – she sang God Bless America exactly as it is written. I’ll bet she sings the anthem the same way.

  70. The girl’s name is Ellie Smith….we’ll probably all be buying her CD’s in a couple of years:)

  71. 108…..thanx John…..that’s one baseball palace I haven’t been to yet…nice to know it’ll stand for awhile until hopefully I have a chance to get back out to the left coast….

  72. How do the Dodger Dogs compare to the Nathan’s dogs at shea?…….I had heard good things about the D. Dogs.

  73. I think the best stadium hot dogs are in Wrigley Field and the brats in Milwaukee. … The mustard at Cleveland is so good they sell it in the stories there. … Coors Field sells 27 varieties of hot dogs.-JD

  74. #112…….how far the mighty have fallen……hopefully we can say the same about the Phils next year :)

  75. haha, they have mentioned the Mets more times than I can ever remember in a game the Mets are not playing.

  76. The mustard in cleveland is amazing. There’s a burger place here on 12th st and university place called “Stand” that serves it along with their burgers.

  77. Never thought I’d say this…….but I gotta put Cleveland on my list of places to see…:)

  78. Broxton coming in with a five run lead and Saito on the D/L……..they must really want this……:)

  79. chucky (120): Go see it. … I grew up there. You’ll want to check out the Flats, which was a warehouse district that is now night clubs and restaurants. … Of course, you want to see the Rock Hall of Fame. … There’s an exhibit in the Hall where Jim Morrison’s parents donated one of his report cards. The teacher’s evaluation was: “Jim is a bright young man, but has a tendency to be disruptive in class.”-JD

  80. I’m glad to see the Dodgers win tonight – I read Frank Torre’s interview where he spoke about how much this all means to his brother.

  81. I am happy for a Dodgers’ win tonight. Would love to see both the AL and the NL series go deep so that there are more games to watch. I really would like to see the Dodgers go on against either of the AL teams. The Manny factor makes the Red Sox scenario interesting, but there is also something to be said about the cinderella “devil”ess Rays.

  82. Well, if you want to try the mustard in NYC, go to stand on 12th and university. Good burgers, and a free beer with your burger until six or seven pm.

  83. Only comment of the night:

    I am in the minority in liking Milledge, and feel he will be a successful baseball player. Yeah he was bad with off-speed pitches but he was the same age as a college junior and senior in 2006 and 2007. Some people love to talk about having a team full of home grown guys and then never show the patience to let it happen.
    He’ll begin 2009 as a 24 year old, we’ll see what happens.

    And I just felt the criticism towards him was either a) unjustified or b) waiting for him to fail to say “SEE I TOLD YA SO!”.
    The whole late thing, yeah it happened, what ya gonna do? We’re all human and make mistakes.

    Whatever, its all moot point, he’s no longer on the Mets.

  84. Hi folks,

    Great thread tonight. I didn’t contribute, but I was able to read your comments after everyone on the East Coast went to bed.

    You’re the smartest and friendliest people in the Mets blogosphere and I look forward to reading your comments everyday. :)

    Thank you and good night. :)

  85. Benny

    You may be right in that Milledge breaks out next year.

    In the later half of this year he did pretty well.

    I do not know if he learned to hit the soft stuff, but his public perception problems was the fault of the man in the mirror.

    When he got called on his actions his standard response was he would do it again.

    Once on the Nats he took back any apologies he did make.

    He has a lot of growing up to do and some people never do.

    I am happy with what we got back. I wish him well.