Mets Chat Room: Saying Goodbye to Shea Edition.

Have been walking around the stands and listening to people. Mixed feelings. Shea has never been state-of-the-art, even from the beginning. But, it has been home to many of you. A place to escape a bad day, a play to dream, a place to shed tears, and most of all, a place to dream.

It’s always sad to say goodbye to a ballpark, because it is the site of so many memories. But, where blacktop will cover what is now the outfield. But, you can’t build over memories, just as you can’t build over dreams.

We say good bye to Shea Stadium today, but not really because there is still the dream of playoff baseball, and with it maybe more memories.

Now, wouldn’t that be something?

For you trivia buffs, here are the lineups, the answer to a future question.

Florida Marlins

CF Cameron Maybin
C John Baker
3B Jorge Cantu
1B Mike Jacobs
LF Josh Willingham
2B Dan Uggla
RF Cody Ross
SS Alfedo Amezaga
LH Scott Olsen

METS

SS Jose Reyes
CF Carlos Beltran
1B Carlos Delgado
3B David Wright
LF Nick Evans
2B Ramon Martinez
RF Ryan Church
C Ramon Castro
LH Oliver Perez

236 thoughts on “Mets Chat Room: Saying Goodbye to Shea Edition.

  1. Mets need a win and a Brewers loss, badly. Pedro on 3 days’ rest? I don’t want to walk that tightrope, even though we are Team Tightrope.

  2. So Brewers and Mets starting at the same time. JD, how much scoreboard watching do you think the Mets will do while in the dugout?

  3. Kevin: One eye on the field; one eye on the scoreboard. And, I might add, Shea has the best scoreboard in baseball to keep tabs of the other games.-JD

  4. Throughout the game I hope you comment about your favorite Shea memories as well as the game.-JD

  5. Jay L.: It’s possible. No way of really telling. Perez is an enigma to me. I can’t guess about him.-JD

  6. I would have prefered Murph instead of Evans – I understand the matchup but Murph is simply a better hitter- I screamed for Ramon to get a shot for two weeks but who would have thought- Johan’s outing yesterday is one for the books…..

  7. I am so sick of hearing how Shea is ugly and antiquated. I like to stay at 5-star hotels when I’m on vacation; when I go to a baseball game in NYC, I’m looking for grit and grime. I’m sure the new stadium will look awesome, and the amenities will be great, but I have always loved Shea Stadium, and I think a lot of New Yorkers – as opposed to the rest of the country – have too.

  8. When Maine went down, I thought the Mets could absorb the loss b/c of how well Ollie and Perez were pitching. Pelf has stayed solid, though not spectacular, but Ollie has regressed.

  9. Seven pitches. One-two-three. Exactly what he needed. Now, they need to get a few runs and just allow him to throw his heat.-JD

  10. A video montage between innings of players thanking the fans for their support. Johan Santana was the last to speak. The place exploded.-JD

  11. JD- Scared to death – don’t know how their playing under this tensions it’s as if an entire year of pressure is all come down to this

  12. Was in the picnic area yesterday for the first time and got to walk the warning track… pretty cool, but we were threatened about 100 times not to pick up 1 grain of dirt or we would be arrested!

  13. apologies in advance if my comments are sporadic today. internet has been spotty…

    but i’ll be here in spirit. let’s go mets.

  14. Ed – Most professional athletes feel more at home and more relaxed on their field than anywhere else. It’s their comfort zone.

  15. Church looks awful, but I still don’t trust Evans/Murphy in the outfield, so I think he needs to be in there.

  16. Ed – I’m not talking about the pitcher who is apparently injured, but the other players should not lack confidence – this is what they DO and they make enormous amounts of money to do it.

    Did Santana look tight to you yesterday?

  17. JM – John has asked us to talk about Shea memories, and since I lived for a while on the Island, I went to Shea often during the ’80s (nice timing). I always felt much more comfortable there than at Yankee Stadium. The difference being that the Mets were like a neighborhood team, and Shea was just another ballpark, not some fancy shrine.

  18. I’m blacked out here in CT, but I’ve got Howie on the radio and he is very explicit about his broadcasting.

    I posted some comments about Santana on the blog earlier today.

  19. It’s really gonna be a shame if Ollie turns in a gem and the bats can’t figure out a guy who has close to a 5.00 ERA against the Mets this season.

  20. JM, I agree, I never had a problem with Shea. It feels like a ballpark. Over here they have chase field, Its sterile and cold. Anybody whos been there want to chime in?

  21. Thank God Good Ollie showed up today. Bats are making me nervous though. Somebody get out a cattle prod.

  22. 3 runs in our last 21 innings. Pelf, Johan, and Ollie are doing all they can to keep this team alive. Some runs. Please.

  23. Ray, I think Citi Field will be great. I was just saying that Shea was great too, and the more people insult it, the more I love it. And I do NOT believe you transfer the memories, no matter how bad you want to. The visceral impact of a place is simply too great.

  24. And this is to be expected. Mets don’t have to win today. Maybe if the Brewers take the lead, our team will start playing.

  25. Maybe it has been the experience of covering the Mets, but the longer this continues, the more I fear something odd happening. And, not necessarily for the better.-JD

  26. JD- your right some teams would say they were holding on for their chance – but this team stays in games like this for the shoe to drop….i hope im wrong its better then glavine’s seven run first but not much

  27. If tatis were Healthy, I bet he would at least be platooning with Church. He looks so bad right now, We might be better off with Endy out there.

  28. Then again, an RBI single is better. … No outs. Ollie has shake this off and keep it at one run.-JD

  29. “It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Bullpen Zone.”

  30. Bad play by Evans throwing to third. Before the ball is hit, you have to know what to do with it. This could come back to bite them in the butt.-JD

  31. Edfever, that is exactly right. If they can’t put up a couple runs to save their season, they don’t deserve the playoffs.

  32. Just showed Piazza’s post 9-11 homer on the video board between innings. One of my favorite moments. Such an emotional scene. Listening to Piazza, he still gets emotional talking about it.-JD

  33. Ray: We all had a feeling the Marlins would play them tough this weekend. Take away Santana and the season is already over.-JD

  34. Technically, the season would not be over w/o Santana since the Brewers lost yesterday. But we got the point.

  35. despite much evidence to the contrary over the last 2 seasons, something inside me has me believing…the mets will win this game.

  36. Ray: I remember. He can play under pressure. It was always an unfair rap that he couldn’t.-JD

  37. Especially on this team, which gives up SO many fly balls. Do Evans/Murphy make that catch? I don’t know, but I wouldn’t want to see them try.

  38. Beltran + 2004 Playoffs = Best clutch performance. Ever

    He is currently #1 in Playoff OPS. Ever

  39. ok…perhaps my optimism was unrealistic. i suppose i should have been looking more closely at all that evidence to the contrary.

    frakkin schoenweiss. i can’t believe just how awful our bullpen is.

  40. The Mets make every other teams bullpen look great. If it wasnt for Ayala and Stokes where would this team be?

  41. Ray – I think the timing of the celebration was wrong in the first place – why after the game anyway?

  42. i dont think a double steal is a such a good idea…but then again risks are what make good managers great, and so-so managers bad.

  43. Yeah… I knew he was under contract for one more but there’s no way the Mets can justify not outright releasing him. He’s got little to no value to a bullpen that needs to be rebuilt.

  44. well… That’s the season folks. What a roller coaster. Hopefully we can address our bullpen in the offseason and we will wait for the proverbial next year. Was fun interacting on this message board. See everyone in march.

  45. Mackey: I’ll be at Shea tomorrow to wrap it up. I’m planning a Mets Chat Room for tomorrow evening to answer questions on who should come back and what they should do. And, I’ll be up and running nearly every day in the offseason on all the winter news. Hope you and everybody will be around for that.-JD

  46. Entire bullpen except for Joe Smith should be gone next year. They can say all they want about not going after K-Rod, but they cant go about their 8th and 9th inning with their fingers crossed. They cant do that to their fans.

  47. I’d like to see an upgrade in left field too. Let Murphy and Evans be role players. Injury usually creates an opportunity anyway.

  48. Yes this bullpen is disgracful and I’ve said since last year Omar needed to make some moves and he didn’t…..

    But you have to take a long look at the make-up/character of the position players ….five runs in the last three games is disgracful…. Where are the Carlos (both) or Wright streak we saw earlier this year is it a coinsidence two years in a row the offesnse shut down …

  49. Wright, Chavez and a pinch-hitter in the ninth. Who will it be … Schneider, Castillo or Easley?-JD

  50. just to throw it in our face, the marlins put in the guy who could have saved our season in both the past two years

  51. The mets will not win (playoffs/World series) with the core players they have on this team. Today was just another case in point. The big choke job.

  52. Harry: We’ll be here all winter to discuss the rumors and trades the Mets don’t make.-JD

  53. This game is a perfect example of what went wrong this season. The bullpen was tagged for the loss, but two runs on four hits won’t cut it. Easley up.-JD

  54. Harry: You’ll be back. Rooting for the Mets is like that girl we all had. You love her, but she keeps breaking your heart. … But, when she calls, you go back.-JD

  55. That didn’t even reach the warning track. … Another season over. … New York’s finest lining the field for the closing ceremonies. This will be fun.-JD

  56. Well guys, Howie has closed the book for the season, sorry, it’s not a happy ending. Thanks for being here – see you next year.

  57. This team reminds me of Dan Marino’s Dolphins. He had that great first season like this team when it was finally put together but came up just shy. People always thought he would be back numerous times but the Dolphins always found away to blow it….

  58. I’m afraid that the Mets will think they need Perez back next year based on his decent performance for 5 innings today and they’ll pay to get him. Not a good recipe for success.

  59. Sam G.: Perez had a good stretch, but the bottom line is he finished 10-8. That’s the kind of record you hope you get from your fifth starter.-JD

  60. A few Marlins just came out with plastic bags to scoop up some dirt around the plate. They were booed, but I’m sorry. That was a great gesture. It was an opponent’s appreciation of Shea. It was a sign of respect.-JD

  61. john- thanks for keeping the lohud up, and then re-creating your blog for us all. i think this might be the last season i follow this team as closely has i did, so goodbye to all of you. and on that note
    SHOW FOR CY YOUNG

  62. I don’t want to sign Perez. Mets should give their number and say “if you can get more, great”. They’ve gotta replace him though, so I’m thinking Burnett will be a target. They’d never do it, but if they felt like giving CC a blank check it would be money well spent. Santana may win the Cy Young, but only because CC only had half a season.

  63. The offense will be public enemy number 1 in the eyes of met fans the next couple of days but the pitching staff is the unit that needs to the overhaul. Should never have come down to this weekend. Anyhow that’s in Omar and his 4 year contracts hands for now. The way things started this season im not nearly as disappointed. Not to mention i have 2 young players I cannot wait to see next year in Murphy and the continued evolution of Pelfrey…Anyhow its been a hell of a time and look forward to speaking in the off season.

  64. This team has no heart and a-holes like Schoenweis helped to destroy whatever was left. He goes down alongside Kenny Rogers as someone I never want to see in a Mets uniform again and someone who I will forever loathe as a baseball player. He was the symbol of a pen that clearly was doing their best to collectively sabotage this team. I wouldn’t be surprised if the rest of the NL East were all secretly cutting them checks.

    As for the offense…they are equally a bunch of losers, with Wright being the leader of that. I love how SNY kept showing those stupid stats about how well he’s been hitting the last 10 days…MAYBE IF JUST ONE OF THOSE STUPID HITS HAD BEEN WITH A MAN ON BASE they wouldn’t be going home right now. Wright is a loser and a fake and if I’m Minaya I definitely entertain offers if some other team comes calling

  65. JM: They didn’t deserve it on so many levels.

    1. Their bullpen was horrid with 29 blown saves.
    2. They lost seven games in the ninth inning.
    3. They played 57 games this year in which they scored three or fewer runs.
    4. They lost 18 one-run games and another 12 by two runs.
    5. They hit only .224 with RISP and two outs and .253 overall.
    6. They were 13th in the NL leaving runners on base, stranding 1220 or just under eight a game.-JD

  66. Manuel has to come back. How can they NOT bring him back, if they gave Omar 4 more years? Can Omar realistically say “I gave him the tools, but he wasn’t able to do the job”? Just like he gave Willie the tools, and HE wasn’t able to do the job? If you get the exact same results with two different managers, there’s something fundamentally wrong with the team.

  67. No way they should pay a lot for Perez..the guy is nothing more than a 5th starter at best. They should do what someone above kind of suggested. Make him an offer that’s market value for a 4th starter (really 5th is what he is but at least make it look liek you have interest) and when BorASS balks at that let some other team get suckered into overpaying him

  68. Perez today showed who he is. A talented pitcher who cannot finish what he starts. He has done this all year, barely getting out of the 6th.

    I would take him back but know that he is at best a #3 but really a 4. He can win you games and can shut them down, but he is also unreliable. As a manager you never know what you will get.

    If there is something better out there you go get it. We have seen what he can do for 2 years now.

    There are no surprises.

  69. Jeff: I’m sure they’ll bring Manuel back. They might even make the announcement this week. … The team came up short, but played better under Manuel. The same bullpen that sabotaged Randolph did in Manuel. … The team had three players with 100 RBI, but overall didn’t hit in the clutch.-JD

  70. Manuel was in over his head dealing with a pen that was crap. As Jeff says, you almost do have to bring him back.

    They need someone on this team that’s got balls and actually wants to win. I’m sick of the losers on this team and their choking ways.

  71. Mr. Met just unveiled the games remaining at Shea. It was a logo of Citi Field. … There were boos. … Just guessing, but it wasn’t a thumbs down to Citi Field, but in how sour the last game, and the last season, unfolded.-JD

  72. Dave: The problem is that Perez’s agent is BorASS who will most surely talk him up as some sort of “Ace quality” stsrter and there will be a team stupid enough to sign him. If he’s a Met next year I’ll be shocked.

    The Mets rotation next year is Johan, Pelfrey, then maybe Maine (if his arm is ok). After that who knows. Maybe Niese gets a shot? Regardless, those last two spots need to be filled. Pedro and Perez both have to go.

  73. So now that this season is over it is time to turn the page.

    We need to find an answer in LF, 2B, 1B, 2 starting pitching slots and the pen.

    For LF and the IF spots I want to see Murphy play. Maybe not as a starter, but certainly a guy who gets lots of chances. He has earned it.

    Castillo needs to go. What a waste. This is on Omar.

    I would bring Delgado back. Even if he is not the player he has been for 1/2 the season, there are too many moving parts to plug every hole.

    I would also upgrade C if I could, but that is not a priority.

    The pen… The only one I like in the whole thing is Smith. Most everyone else can go. Some will stay, but I would not fight for them.

    Dave

  74. Howie Rose is the MC. He is introducing notable Mets who aren’t here.

    Among them Nolan Ryan, Jerry Grote, Hubie Brooks, Davey Johnson, Mookie Wilson.-JD

  75. RMKMets

    See my last post, I agree we have 3 pitchers just like last offseason.

    I might give Niese a shot. But you need to go in with eyes wide open. He will be a rookie and all that entails.

  76. Other notable introductions: The widows of Bob Murphy, Gil Hodges and Tommie Agee. … Tug McGraw’s sons Mark and Matthew.-JD

  77. JD- Howie Rose said it best on friday on the WFAN this team reminded him of the late 70s phillies always a bridesmaid never a bride, They brought in Pete Rose who showed them how to hit in clutch situations and while he was in the twilight of his career it was his mentality on the inexperienced that put th 1980 team over the top. I’ve been saying since last year they don’t have that guy who relishes hitting inpressure situation, most of those guys in this league i think Omar is afraid to bring in….

  78. Kiner deserved every bit of that applause. He’s as much of Mets history as any of the players who walked onto the field.

  79. John –

    Mike Mussina gets his 20 win season today at Fenway :)

    Final Score, Yankees 6, Red Sox 2.

    Night Game starts at 7PM

  80. Ed.. that’s my childhood memory of the Mets. I think I liked Kiner’s Korner better than the games most of the time! :)

  81. Annie… good for Moose.He’s a class pitcher. Did you read the book by John Weinstein about Glavine and Mussina?

  82. They are introducing the franchise’s best. They are lining the infield. … Here comes Yogi Berra. I was wondering if he’d be here.-JD

  83. Sam – Yes I did read John’s book – I always liked Mussina = my brother lives near Camden Yards and has followed Mike since he was a rookie. Big family favorite – hope this means HOF votes and other good stuff for a great guy. His wins total 270 – he’s talking with Suzyn right now and saying wonderful things about Jose Molina who became his personal catcher this year. His family travelled to Fenway to be with him.

    Happy Days for the Mussinas.

  84. I JD they said the same thing about Ray Knight and even said you put him with Lenny and that clubhouse will explode… Im not saying Bradley is the answer but they need a fiesty player… Handley or Reyes clearly reyes has better skills but who had the better weekend even with a day off….

  85. Ed: Damn, me too. When I was in college I did an internship with the Houston Astros. One weekend I worked stats in the Mets radio booth. Murph and Ralph signed a baseball for me. I still have it. Sweet.-JD

  86. Looking out at those guys on the field, all I can think of is my baseball card collection has just come to life.-JD

  87. They will now all touch home plate. Willie is the first. (I just had a flashback to the play at the plate in the World Series against Oakland.)-JD

  88. So fitting that Piazza and Seaver were the last two… Piazza is just as much the franchise as Seaver when you look back on it. They both turned a franchise around.

  89. Rusty bows. Always classy. Keith assumes his batting stance. Priceless. …. Yogi missed the plate. … Seaver bows, just like before. Will he go to the mound?-JD

  90. Arm in arm, Seaver and Piazza are walking to center field. They stop to wave. They embrace. The others have gone, but the spotlight is on them as they’ll walk out of Shea and into the new era of Citi Field.

    Will it be as good? Will it tug at our hearts the way Shea did? Big shoes to fill. Real big.-JD

  91. how could they let it end in a loss and only score two is all i can think as this ceremony takes place… this is not the scrappy, tough team I grew up with even in their bad years it would have been a 10-9 loss with a bench clearer….

  92. sorry i didn’t check back in sooner, but the game left me incapable.

    another season down the drains. two years in a row now i have given the mets my time, my dedication, my love, not to mention my money, only to be rewarded with anguish and heartbreak.

    yes, today’s loss is less painful then last year’s, but on some level it is even more frustrating because they were supposed to have fixed the mistakes and learned the lessons that led to last year’s demise.

    instead we got more of the same. another late season collapse highlighted by a horrendous bullpen and hitters who can’t produce when the moment demands it.

    sad.

    thank you JD for all your hard work and thank you to everyone else who have made this blog the one lasting highlight of the mets’ 2008 season.

    i look forward to talking with all of you on some non-met related topics this offseason.

    enjoy the rest of your weekend, and be safe.

  93. That was a great ceremony — almost enough to make me forget the game. I can’t believe they actually got George “The Stork” Theodore to come back! That shows some thought. He certainly can’t be called one of the “greats” but he was a fan favorite.

    The most touching comment was Ron Darling’s afterward — he said the whole ’86 team was in the bowels of the stadium consoling HoJo, who was devastated by “his” team’s loss. Darling said that’s the way that group always has been, supporting one another.

    And I was suprised to hear Keith say how it got to him to be standing on the field, in the very spot where he played, instead of upstairs looking down the way he’s gotten used to seeing it. Both he and Ron were not expecting to choke up quite the way they did.

  94. Sheffield? I doubt the Mets would touch him. They wouldn’t touch Manny Ramirez, and look where the Dodgers are now.

  95. Not sure I would get Sheff. Which DH slot do you put him in?

    As for Manny, do you get rid of your kids so that you can make the post season? I say no. If he was on the team we would play in October. Not sure if it would get us the ring, which is the only reason to get him.

    You still would have no pen.

  96. Dave,

    Sheff, blamed his poor average this year on not playing the field said he lost the rythem of the game. Could he be any worse then Alou in the field

  97. Saw Orosco and Franco back to back in the postgame.

    I forgot Jesse. Of the relievers I have seen, I would have it Jesse and then John in that order. I just trust Orosco more.

  98. I agree with not getting Manny in trade this year but moving forward might be nice in left field…. problem now becomes has this core peaked or is this just another stumble, reyes and wright still have cieling but Beltran is now over 30 and will Delgado have another year, who knows where church is at does he even know

  99. Ed,

    Either way he is old. He should not be starting. Do we want to go through that when we have a player with heart like Murphy on the team?

    If Sheff could be a role player fine. What the hell. He can take one of the old bench players’ spots. But he is all ego and he is not the player he was 5 years ago.

    Then there is FMart who may be ready by all star break next year.

  100. There saying were rushing him and he’s not responding well, projected for 2010 and I wont be surprised if he doesn’t struggle under the pressure of fans wanting him here think of Milledge 06 against breaking balls or in the field at fenway

  101. Yeah.

    FMart was not spectacular in AA. He was ok. He needs to dominate. He is still young. Perhaps he needs more time.

  102. The surprise isn’t that we didn’t win, it’s how close we came. If you want to say Omar built a team that was susceptible to injuries, I can’t argue, but it is true that we got whacked pretty hard by them …

    The bottom half of today’s lineup wasn’t scaring anyone.

    But none of that solves next year — while you hope Church and Duaner will be stronger, and Maine is back.

    I’m not eager to overpay for Ollie. I would bring Pedro back as 4 or 5 at the right price. You can let Niese compete for the job, but what about letting Heilman do the same? If he doesn’t make it, cut him at the end of spring training — don’t waste a bullpen slot on him…

  103. I stayed away from posting today because I didn’t yesterday and we won.
    I am deeply, deeply disappointed. More so than I ever have been in my 37 years of being a Mets fan.
    Omar Minaya must be fired.
    He had two years to fix the bullpen and didn’t. He failed to adequately address second base, left field and the back end of the starting rotation. He relied on huge comebacks by injured players. He overpaid in years and dollars for free agents.
    After last year, he should’ve shown a determination to not let last year’s debacle repeat itself.
    And it did.
    And it breaks my heart.

  104. Omar isn’t going to be fired — not after he was just handed a new 4-year contract.

    The closing ceremony was kind of emblematic of the current Mets problem: It ended with their first superstar, Seaver, and their last superstar, Piazza, strolling out together. They no longer have a superstar. You could say it’s Santana, but, aside from Saturday’s game, he didn’t really have a “superstar” year. And, even though it was possible for a pitcher to have that status back when Seaver did it, his place was always larger than life because he was the first to bring respectability to a team that had none. And the years when they won, Seaver always had a reliable Number 2 — whether Koosman or Matlack. Today, even a great pitcher cannot carry a team; he can only give them a chance to win every fourth day. The “star” has to be an offensive player, with an impact on the lineup every day.

    But I’m trying to take a positive attitude, because I’ve often been accused of being too cynical and dour. Here goes: The best thing about today’s outcome is that they can start demolishing Shea immediately. That virtually assures the parking lot will be ready for Opening Day.

    That’s all I got.

  105. JD, painful to log on tonight. Just felt obligated to come by and say thank you. You didn’t have to start a new blog, but you really stepped up for your readers. I’ll stop by the next few days here and there if it’s not too painful to get the HOT STOVE scoop -haha, but again thanks man. Please keep me updated when you get that other blog going. Keep up your good work brother.

    “There’s always next year,” for now, there’s depression.

  106. Santana did have a superstar year.
    With a reasonable bullpen he wins 20.
    In the end a lack of bench killed this team.
    Delgado and Reyes played 159 games Wright played 160 and Beltran 161. Not since the 1968 Cubs has this happened. I think we all agree a little bit of extra rest would have helped them down the stretch.

    The closing ceremony was truly amazing I wish you all could have been at the game.

    To everyone its been great and I will see you in a little while. I need to decompress.

  107. Santana was an ACE this year. He started a little slow. But as the year went on he got strong. I cannot ask for more from a pitcher than what he gave.

    I would like for him to consistently go more than 7 but that is it. He is what we wanted when we got him.

    I agree with Scott, our players need a break. The IF needs more days off. Beltran should have been given time off. We have Endy. He doesn’t have the bat, but we will not miss a beat with him at any of the OF positions.

    The real problem on this team turned out to be the pen. The fact that our pitchers cannot go 7 killed us. We had to go to the pen too much and they were terrible this year. Last year they just got over worked. This year they got used a lot, but there is no excuse for not being able to hold 4 run leads.

    We need a better bench. Down the stretch if Murphy was not in the game it was Easley. I like Easley, but he doesn’t scare me. Anderson was invisible this year and should not be allowed to play any position save 1B.